Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hey you. Yeah,
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[email protected]. That's a U T H E N I C K. The
[email protected]. I am available 24 7 365 to help in any way that I can. I have resources. I have open ears and open heart and tons of hope. I've been freely given all these things and would love to give them to you. Be good to yourselves and each other. Follow me on Twitter, using the handle at authen neck and my dog, Marla on Instagram at DJ Marla dot Jean. During today's program, you will hear a mentioned multiple times, the individual expressing their thoughts and opinions do not reflect AA or Alanon as a whole. Please enjoy the FCC. Won't let me be your, let me be meet. So let me see. I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to all the artists, whose music I used in season one. So now you get to hear me saying it's going to be real good.
Speaker 0 00:01:33 Bye. Hey Paul . I am a drug addict to eating disorder. we aim to bring all the stigma to hedges. You have experience Strang and cause this is
Speaker 1 00:03:05 Welcome. Welcome. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to the show. My name is Nicholas Thomas Fitzsimmons, abandon enabled, but most people just call me Nick. And this is my show authentic. It's like authentic, but I took out the T it and put a K on the end. Silent Q anyway, here with me as always is mind tog Marla,
Speaker 3 00:03:38 Give me a baby
Speaker 1 00:03:44 Stuffed crust. This is Papa John's crust stew. Alright, Marlin. I think that promotion is now over. Sorry to say anyway, here on authentic, where we get authentic, we talk about all things recovery. Hmm. What do I mean by that? All things recovery. Well, what I mean by that is if you are still living and breathing on this earth, you yes are in recovery from something. As for myself, I am an alcoholic. Hi, my name is Eric and I am an alcoholic. I'm also a drug addict. I'm a compulsive gambler. I bipolar disorder. I have an eating disorder. Really? The list could go on and on and on. Luckily for you, the show is not about me. I repeat this show is not about me. It is however about two people. First is my guest runs, sell who will share his experience, strength and hope as it pertains to his life in recovery. Second is the one life run. Cell is most certainly going to save by giving his testimony here. We want you to know that you are not alone, no matter what your circumstance, no matter what happened today, yesterday, or what might happen tomorrow, doesn't matter because all we have is today and today with ed Fitbit, it is time federal run, federal time run. So please introduce yourself in any way you see fit, sir.
Speaker 4 00:05:25 Well, Nick, my name is Ron cell and I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 00:05:30 How do you spell runs? So
Speaker 4 00:05:32 R O N.
Speaker 1 00:05:34 I've been calling you run cell. Hey
Speaker 4 00:05:36 Ron. So I've been called a lot worse
Speaker 1 00:05:39 Me two words not to be named.
Speaker 4 00:05:44 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:05:45 Yes. So please introduce yourself, sir. In any way you see fit.
Speaker 4 00:05:48 Yes, Nick. So, um, run, sell, and glad to be here with you and, uh, your fans that watch you. Um,
Speaker 1 00:05:57 Listen, listen, thank God. They can't
Speaker 4 00:05:59 See me. Oh man. They don't know what
Speaker 1 00:06:01 Stinky bare feet walking around.
Speaker 4 00:06:07 Oh man. Well, I am, you know, I'm elated to be here, Nick. I feel this is something in my life, dad it's been coming and that's why I'm here because of, of, of this message of this new found life. Just to introduce myself again, I'm just, you know, I'm an alcoholic. I've been true, some battles and I've been through some fun times and I walk around as I am. Right. But it, it never was that way. So I guess I'm Ron Sullivan and I'm an open book.
Speaker 1 00:06:43 Damn. You should have a podcast. You're fucking clever. whatever is hell, do you want to come sit over here? Oh,
Speaker 4 00:06:52 We'll start here first. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:06:54 We'll start there. And you're going to end there pal, buddy chief. Thank you. I appreciate you. You're fucking well, I appreciate you. Appreciate you. We're going to have an appreciation. Yes, but first let's get down to the nitty gritty please. So you're here. You identify as an alcoholic and an open book. So let's open up that book. Where do we begin? What are your, like your, your first memories, your childhood? What was that like for you?
Speaker 4 00:07:21 So where we begin is in Guyana, south America, you don't come from a small village in the hinterlands of Guyana. Growing up in that environment is very different, right? It's very, what would you call it? Exotic. I grew up around a lot of things and seeing a lot of things that Americans more or less. Yeah. It takes a minute to get it across. Right. To paint that picture as a boy, it was a lot of greenery, a lot of jungles. Hm. A lot of poverty, but also a lot of fun. I was very secluded because the village I grew up in was, uh, say six to eight hours away from Georgetown, which is all jumbled terrain driving. So you can have a good trip out six hours. Yeah. Or it could, uh, you could be in the rainy season and it's 10 hours because you're stuck could be a day's trip. Cause you can't get out of the mud that you're stuck in as a boy, you know, growing up in, in that environment and then coming here and building my life here, it took a, it was a bit of a transition.
Speaker 1 00:08:33 You came directly to Minnesota or did you CO's elsewhere in the states
Speaker 4 00:08:37 Years before I moved here, I did visit the states. Um, where did you visit? Oh, Nebraska.
Speaker 1 00:08:43 Out of all.
Speaker 4 00:08:45 I tell you man, But, but peep game, right? Yeah. But people game when I came here, it was, I was just elated to be here. Why? Why? Because McDonald's
Speaker 1 00:08:58 No,
Speaker 4 00:08:59 No, no. Uh, more or less, uh, the allure of America to a boy like me coming from a third world country. The Allura was great. I mean every TV show I would see as a boy, it would show American a very, you know, light that everyone wanted to experience. So here I get the opportunity to get to America. I didn't care what stayed and what, I didn't even know what the,
Speaker 1 00:09:24 Okay. I apologize hereby, therefore, to, to Nebraska, Nebraska, because that's where you fell in love with America did. Yes. Yes. I bet you that horn had something.
Speaker 4 00:09:39 Oh, I, I wouldn't realize until years later, how much ah, yeah, the trips to and from Nebraska would be so entertaining, so exciting, you know, six hours, five hours of just corn and highway. Anyways. I do
Speaker 1 00:09:58 Beautiful. It's beautiful. It's very, it's very, there's a lot of jungle.
Speaker 4 00:10:03 Yeah. I tell you what, there was a lot of snow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:10:06 Uh, it tends to do that in the United States.
Speaker 4 00:10:10 Yes. Yes. Like spirits that for the first time,
Speaker 1 00:10:13 How did you feel about snow for the first time
Speaker 4 00:10:16 I was captivating, you know, it was, it just, I, I remember standing outside and just catching it in my hands. Right. Like I'm watching it melt and just being mesmerized by it. And like, this is, this is real, you know, at that time I was what, um, I believe I was 11.
Speaker 1 00:10:35 So people are looking out their windows at an 11 year old run south. And you're you look like you're out of your goddamn mind. Right. Just really high or something something's going on with that fucking little black kid
Speaker 4 00:10:48 Standing out there with his outstretched
Speaker 1 00:10:50 Arms. Well, and I'm assuming, and this is a sweeping generalization, but I'm guessing that you went to a community with a lot of white people. Yes. So tell me about that experience. Did you, when did you decide to stay in the United States?
Speaker 4 00:11:06 That was a decision more or less. That was an opportunity for me. Right. So after I visited at first time, the second time I came back was when was to stay. So that was based on, you know, my parents, my family, that I was coming over to live with. And so more or less at that age, I was what, 12 wasn't really much of my choice. It was an opportunity that popped up. And my parents looked at me.
Speaker 1 00:11:35 What do you mean an opportunity that popped up
Speaker 4 00:11:38 Due to whatever, you know, circumstances that my, my, like I said, my parents and the family I came to live with, which was my uncle, who is my mom's brother due to what they, you know, talked about adept time, figured it was beneficial for me. And so that, that was just, it just came down to me. Okay, son, this is what you, this is what you're doing. This is what
Speaker 1 00:12:06 What's happening. See, I liken it to, I went through a move at that formative age also. Isn't that bizarre where it's just like, it's basically right on the cusp of like prepubescents or puberty period, like 11 or 12. That's when my parents moved. It was more so like from closer to the city to way out in the fucking sticks. Um, not that that is, you know, not comparing yours to mine, but I get that where it's not your choice. You just have to fucking roll with it. Yes. Did you want to be here or did you want to stay back in Guyana?
Speaker 4 00:12:44 Well, wow. Fair, good
Speaker 1 00:12:46 Question. Thank you. I ask all good questions. Zero bad one. I'm loving it. I love that. You love it. Loving it.
Speaker 4 00:12:54 You see with that, Nick, at that time, I didn't come to that. Ah, realization or conclusion until older. But at that time it was excitement. It was wow. It was like, I am getting a chance to go to this place that not very many people get a chance. The go-to.
Speaker 1 00:13:16 So you're here in the states. Right? What occurred next? What was your life like after you had decided I'm staying in the U S
Speaker 4 00:13:26 Then it was on the roller coaster of, of what's the com. Right? So I am, I am here and I am just in euphoria. Right? I am in the greatest country in the world. Right.
Speaker 1 00:13:41 Nice, nice eyebrow race. Yeah. I saw no one else. No one else saw it. Yeah. I felt it before you did it.
Speaker 4 00:13:51 So I'm here and adapting because the first thing I realized was people couldn't understand what I was saying. When I opened my mouth, I had to repeat the same thing two to three to four to five to six times. So I had to be quiet
Speaker 1 00:14:06 For awhile. What language were you speaking? English, but it, it, it, no, no. I mean, from when you lived in Guyana, English, yes.
Speaker 4 00:14:14 Okay. Only English speaking country on that continent. Bizarre. Right? Surrounded by Spanish, surrounded by Portuguese. Yes. Right. And here I get out of this country. I get here to the states and I speak English. Now at that time, I'm in middle school and I see a lot of other foreign kids coming from other places that, that are in special classes for English. And I'm thinking, you know, it's, it's, I'm thinking, wow, I can speak this language fluently. This it's not that day. Yeah. They're dumb or not smart or whatever the case. It's just the language barrier. Right. And so I guess a little that I was fortunate enough for that, but I did learn that I had to be quiet for awhile because I had to learn to assimilate the tongue more or less. Now, when I speak with my parents is a different story.
Speaker 4 00:15:09 But when I speak with an American or someone born here, living here, I have to rethink that, that whole process. So there's a lot of quiet and a lot of observing. And then when I speak that took practice the assimilating, not only with language, but then everything else kind of fell into place, you know? Oh, well, these people do things this way. Oh, this is strange. But it's, and then with everything going on still remember the euphoria, the euphoria friends were different. People were different. It was like night and day for me at that age. No.
Speaker 1 00:15:44 Now part of the reason that you're sitting here is to talk about your alcoholism. Yes. When did alcohol first find its place into your mouth? Mmm
Speaker 4 00:15:56 Hmm.
Speaker 1 00:15:58 You remember when your first drink was?
Speaker 4 00:16:00 Yes. Yes. It was when it was single digits, I was in Guyana and it was a Guinness. Right. And a Guinness again, it's not until the later years that a lot of these things would come to me. So Guinness back then was just something drank by a lot of guy news. It was like a, the cores are to make golden here. Right. And also it is beer banks. Like the bank, you go to just add an S banks beer. And I was like, their local beer went to a boarding school at a young age, dare and dare how the system works. You know, we, the kids they'll take this exam and pending on how they do. They get then sent to that, uh, educational institution based on how they do at 10. I wrote 10 years old. I wrote this exam did well enough to go to this boarding school, which happens to be a pretty good school. All in the name of that school. President's college went there, away from the parents, experienced independence as a boy in a way that, again, years later I come to find out it's it could, could be a good thing and I could not be a not so good thing when you're around boys that have a bunch of freedom. Well, we do what boys do we get? You know, we can, we get mischievous. So we experiment. Right. And then I was introduced to such things, Guinness alcohol.
Speaker 1 00:17:34 What did your using habits look like back that? And when you had your first drink, when you had that Guinness, how often were you drinking at that time?
Speaker 4 00:17:43 At that time, you see, I didn't really, the taste was, people always say, well, they spit it. Or, or, ah, you know, that I don't, I don't remember the taste being so much of a thing for me as much as what I was doing. Right. So, and developing a habit at that age. It wasn't a habit. You see guys there, they would do like, um, rice wine, right? We, you got fruits, you got rice and water sugar, you make your own hooch. Right. So then you'd see the allure, the allure behind making this stuff was more of a thing than say getting addicted to it at that age, it was just doing it. It was drinking it all, having laughing with the guys on the weekend, guys leave for the weekend. It's just you and a select couple of guys, you make it, you have fun. You're not really thinking what it's doing to you and stuff like that. I guess at that age, I was more so having fun with, you know, with the people I was around.
Speaker 1 00:18:41 Right. It was kind of like that weekend warrior type thing going on when you, if it was around, if you had access to it, you know, over the weekend, Friday or Saturday night and then all week. I mean, it's just, doesn't really register that it will ever be a problem.
Speaker 4 00:18:57 Right. Right.
Speaker 1 00:18:59 Right. So I want to know, how did that progress then into the beginning of your alcoholism, when did things ramp up? Why did they ramp up? Okay.
Speaker 4 00:19:09 So then I got, I moved here to the states at, let's say 13, once I moved here, I guess a general idea about alcohol was very open. Right? It was open, it was acceptable, acceptable. So I saw that, you know, friends were, we're dealing with alcohol differently, right differently. It was a little more open. So then I got into that and into those circles, but more or less into the habit, the way life would have it, we attract the people to us in the part of life that we're at. Right. And again, these are ideals that I did not learn until later on in life. We attracted people as to where we are at that time. So my friends at that time, we loved partying. We loved having fun. Right. Okay. Now love having fun. Alcohol more than often is associated with death and drugs.
Speaker 4 00:20:14 Right. And, or, okay. Now you take a group of teenagers that love having fun, and then you introduce a beer and you go, okay, well I've done this before, but again, not, not in displace, not around these people. It's a different energy. It's a different vibe. All right. Hope harmless. And I'm a, I'm a teenager and I'm thinking harmless, okay, we get into it. And all of a sudden you get closer. You act, you act differently. So people feel like they know you and you get, and then you find that's your crew. And these are my friends. Then my drinking more or less became a pastime a part of my past.
Speaker 1 00:20:57 Okay. So you're introduced to this crew. These are your boys. You love having fun. Noticing probably that alcohol makes it seem like more fun is being had. Right. So where did it go from?
Speaker 4 00:21:13 So noticing the noticing part that, that alcohol was making it all more fun. Wasn't actually noticed by me at the time, it was just having fun. Just having fun. Then just having fun turned right now on this ride of mine, I have to understand. And I hope that people following me will understand, or following this interview will understand that the complete blindness to the fun it's really, it was very real everything in my life. At that point I could not do without alcohol, but I did not notice it. I didn't see it when I saw it. It was too late in the sense that looked like me going to jail, me, losing my children, me losing my other half at the time, me not having a place to live me, camping out on my friend's couch, me going from job to job to job. And the list goes on.
Speaker 1 00:22:21 So you've lost a few things due to your drinking, the
Speaker 4 00:22:25 Loss?
Speaker 1 00:22:26 Yes. When you went to jail. Well, first of all, why, why were you in jail?
Speaker 4 00:22:30 Um, my first encounter with jail was, was with a DUI involving alcohol. I was 20 at the time, right before my 21st birthday.
Speaker 1 00:22:43 Yeah. Well Mike was like, I got mine the day after new years because I was working in the bars and, uh, that was like my holiday where I actually got to celebrate. So it was, uh, January 2nd. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:22:56 Yes, yes. I remember the cop looks at me. He goes, oh right before your 21st,
Speaker 1 00:23:02 But where are you intoxicated? Would it even have mattered? Yes.
Speaker 4 00:23:06 Yeah. So I guess it would have, yes, it would have. I got home that night and um, I was, I was serving at the time I was a server at, uh, the old Texas Roadhouse. Oh, Oh the buttons. So I get home after a long shift, I come home to a house full of people and a party. Well, that's just, that was the huge usual suspects back then, usual activities going on. What do we do when we walk into such, uh, situations, we all know we got to catch up. We got to catch up.
Speaker 1 00:23:43 People start handing you. No people start handing you three drinks. And you're like, this was a balanced one on my head. I'll just Chuck it. And then I can hold to double fist. And you got to play catch up. Yes. Because you want to be on the same level, if not higher than what you walk into. Absolutely. It's that fear of missing out on a good time. So I got to, you guys have a headstart on me, so I better fucking catch up. I better catch up. Okay. So what happened next?
Speaker 4 00:24:10 Here I am catching up. Everyone is way up throughout that process of catching up a friend goes, oh, I gotta go. I gotta go home. Everyone is looking around thinking, well, you gotta go right now. Like, we're just, yeah. I, I, you know, I gotta go home. Well, who's the most sober one. Well, the guy who came in last and is catching up, so by a drunken tank thinking Ron cell is most sober. He drank less. He can drive. He should be the best fit to drive. And I, myself, yes, I am the most sober here, guys. Please don't any of you drive letting me drive. Okay. I am. I've had the least amount makes sense. We get into the car. We take off cop pulls a solver, right? Asks, um, you guys been drinking tonight? Ah, no officer. Okay. Can I see your ID please?
Speaker 4 00:25:08 Here you go. My buddy in the back decides that this would be the perfect time to puke. Pulls, pulls out out the little pouch behind the passenger side and that's it go in there. So the cop, the cop checks my ID, right? 40 part, the cop checks my ID about to hand it back to me. My fingers are out to get my ID because remember I was the one catching up. So the buzz really hadn't kept caught up. So I'm, I'm doing good. My heart's racing a million miles an hour. Not because I'm nervous, but because I'm about to get away with this. And then he decides to do that. And that ID went yank. I can see him just slow motion, pull it out of my fingers and looks at me and goes, I thought you boys, weren't drinking tonight. Please step out of the car. And then it was downhill from there neck. Then Jill was inevitable.
Speaker 1 00:26:02 Now I have nobody to blame for my DUI, but myself. Hmm. Did you ever blame him?
Speaker 4 00:26:12 Yes. Back then I did.
Speaker 1 00:26:15 I would've been fine except for that fucking asshole. Just puked into the back pouch.
Speaker 4 00:26:20 Oh, my car sat in the lot for a few weeks. It was summer.
Speaker 1 00:26:26 Oh, it was ripe. It was
Speaker 4 00:26:29 Ripe. So we got into an altercation over that at the time. Because as you know, prevailing head Stu, I had to go over there and squared away. Let him know how he costed me jail time. And now it's on my record and have you whatnot. So yes, yes. I let him know how in the wrong he was for sure. For sure. But then again, that didn't come to me until, until years later. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:26:54 Well then what happened years later, you were continuing on with the partying, the drinking. You said you were oblivious to it until it wasn't right. So when did, when did that time come? When did it become obvious to you that you have a problem or that other people are voicing that you have a problem?
Speaker 4 00:27:13 Oh yes. So that moment, that moment came. When I was looking at the, uh, counselor, the treatment counselor, I was thinking to myself, well, Ronsel, you can either be completely honest with this woman, or you can continue to do what you've been doing. And oh, by the way, take the solid advice from your friends and the light to her and this intake. So she can believe you and say, oh Ron, so there's nothing wrong with you. It made a mistake sending you here. You're perfectly fine. You don't need to come to my facility. That was an option. But the option I took Nick was the first option to be completely honest with a woman. I knew nothing about what I know now, which we're about we're going to get into. But, um, at that time I was like, you know, I I've been to jail.
Speaker 4 00:28:07 I've I've at this point is what is what we call our, I would like to call my rock bottom at this point. I, as I mentioned before, my eyes were open. Well, once I lost things, my family, my home, my jobs, right. And here I am sitting in front of this treatment counselor and she's sitting in front of me asking me questions, right. And I'm having to answer, and I'm having this internal battle of, do I lie to this woman? Or do I not? Do I just fucking tell her, listen, I'm perfect. I don't wanna tell you. I'm perfect because I, that internal battle is real. We have it. I had it. And I chose to go. The route I felt was because I do have a problem and I need to go down a road to see, first of all, if I'm right about having this problem and if it can help me.
Speaker 1 00:29:03 Yes. All right. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, run cell is going to talk about how he got some H E L P motherfucking.
Speaker 2 00:29:15 Oh,
Speaker 1 00:30:41 Run. So how are you at singing?
Speaker 4 00:30:43 Not so good at singing rapping different story.
Speaker 1 00:30:46 Okay. I'm going to have to record some. Oh, we got to put something in between for transitions. Maybe we could record you rapping, man.
Speaker 4 00:30:56 You serious?
Speaker 1 00:30:58 Yeah. I don't fuck around. No you don't. You, you know what else? I don't fuck around. What's that I don't fuck around about there. It is. Know what it is. I don't fuck around. I'm out here around sound. That's help. H E L P help. And here we are talking about getting some, given some help. What did initial help look like for you? I know you said you went to go see this therapist that was at a treatment center. What did it actually look like for you getting help?
Speaker 4 00:31:32 Um, help, help while I was weak, right? Yeah. Most definitely when I walked in there, but I didn't know it. I didn't know it. So help, help look like misery. Right? That that's what help looked like at the time misery. Well, you think, well, Ron, so how does hell, how does that, where does misery and that, how, how well, what I didn't realize was when I was sitting in front of that lady, the journey that I was about to embark upon due to being honest, honesty is where we start. Right. So, okay, here I am talking to this treatment center therapist. She goes, okay. She tells me when I begin, she tells me the process that I'll be taking on. So then at the time I knew I was in a place that is supposedly going to help me. Right. Supposedly. So I was putting my trust in that. So I guess to answer your question, that's what help looked like. At the time it looked like misery, a bit of confusion, dark, but I knew it was where I was going to get help.
Speaker 1 00:32:52 What wasn't helpful about that situation? Where people making it difficult for you to stay sober? Yes,
Speaker 4 00:32:59 Yes, yes. And, and those people were the ones closest to me
Speaker 1 00:33:06 Usually that's
Speaker 4 00:33:07 Yes, yes. Right? Yes. That's what I, that's what I came to learn. And I came to find out what wasn't helpful about that process on Nick was myself, go figure it out myself. I was the least helpful part of that process. Me Ron, soul Williams, more or less, because I was getting in my way, I was angry. I was frustrated. I felt lonely. I felt betrayed. I felt all these negative thoughts, emotions.
Speaker 1 00:33:49 Who did you feel betrayed by?
Speaker 4 00:33:51 By my friends, mostly my friends.
Speaker 1 00:33:54 Why did they betray you? How do they betray you?
Speaker 4 00:33:58 Well, of course in that time I can go back and I can, I can think of situations where, well, you shouldn't have puked. Why didn't you? You know what I mean? Well, anything, anything, anything else in the world called excuses? Right, right, right. Why did you have to call the cops? You could have called the fire department. You could have call the anyone else. You got to call the friend another friend.
Speaker 1 00:34:20 Okay. So who was calling the cops on you? Right? Right.
Speaker 4 00:34:23 Well, well that, no, those are examples. Gotcha. Right? Those are like scenarios as to why did you do this to get me here? Right? Why did you do it? Not me now. Why did I act a fool to cause to put you in a, in a, between a rock and a hard place, right? Where you feel this guy is gone crazy. That I, my only option is to call, help, right? Call someone to help me because Ron soul's acting out of sorts. That's why I called the cops. That's why I called mom or Joel. Right. More or less. I found out that I was the one. I was the one getting in my own way. In the beginning of being in front of that lady, in that building where I'm getting help.
Speaker 1 00:35:11 So you're getting help at this institution, this recovery center, whatever you want to call it. What sort of tools were you learning there? What, what are some, just give me a few examples of some tools that were introduced to you.
Speaker 4 00:35:23 Absolutely. I got a shout out grace counseling, right? That is the treatment center that I was mandated to go to
Speaker 1 00:35:31 Court mandated. That means you made a lot of really good decisions all in a row. Right?
Speaker 4 00:35:36 Absolutely. And get this, I made the best decision was not going when they told me to go, that was the best decision I made. Right. Because then they had to say, because Ron Saul's thinking is you got to send out a war, a warrant for me, an arrest warrant to let me know. You mean business. How many ever months or a year later, that warrant made it to my, to my hands. And I actually read it. I ended up going,
Speaker 1 00:36:02 Isn't that bizarre when you're holding a warrant in your hands for your arrest, you decide to either justify or own. Cause there seems only two directions. When I received, I didn't even know I had a warrant for IRS, no clue. And it's not big. It's not anything super exciting. You want to know why there was a warrant for my arrest, unpaid parking tickets, all illegal shit. I did. Oh, parking tickets.
Speaker 4 00:36:34 That's amazing. That's amazing. But then that's the thinking. Yeah. That's how we think. Right? That's how I thought in those days.
Speaker 1 00:36:43 Well, I'm not going to change unless something like drastic, like a warrant for my arrest is introduced to me. Otherwise, why change when nothing bad is really happening or at least in our minds, nothing bad is really happening until it's just that,
Speaker 4 00:37:02 Whoa,
Speaker 1 00:37:03 It's that real moment of clarity that it talks about, uh, in some of the literature that you and I both read is just that moment of clarity. Even doesn't matter how fucking drunk high crossfaded we are. There's just that moment of clarity. I remember my, I remember several of mine. It's that moment of clarity where we understand and we own our shit. Yes.
Speaker 4 00:37:27 So back to
Speaker 1 00:37:27 Tools. Yes. What kind of tools do you use? What kind of tools did you learn?
Speaker 4 00:37:32 Well, well add grace counseling. Almost the first place I heard of AA. Right? The first place I had never, I didn't even know this program existed. You didn't.
Speaker 1 00:37:43 I did not.
Speaker 4 00:37:44 That's bizarre. It not. That is not none of my friends, no body. I crossed paths with no relatives, relatives, no, nothing
Speaker 1 00:37:55 As a little sidebar are either of your parents alcoholic. No. To, to your best knowledge, to my best knowledge. No. Any of your siblings?
Speaker 4 00:38:03 To my best knowledge, no grandparents. Grandparents. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:38:07 It tends to skip a generation.
Speaker 4 00:38:10 Yes. Once an uncle's.
Speaker 1 00:38:12 Yes, same here. It's peculiar. How that happens, where we don't no sibling, no carrots. But as I said in the very, very beginning, everybody's in recovery from something. So it doesn't necessarily have to be alcoholic tendencies. It can be any sort of compulsive soothing behavior that is negative.
Speaker 4 00:38:32 provides an escape, you know, it provides an escape.
Speaker 1 00:38:35 So you're in therapy. Can you remember any skills that they introduced to you
Speaker 4 00:38:40 Being the first place that I heard of? Uh, AA, you know, the further along I went in this program and then a treatment program, it was there. It kept coming up and I'm like, well, what is it? And then the counselor was like, well, you know, I highly recommend that after you guys graduate, it's programmed that you've checked out at that time. It was the Blaine.
Speaker 1 00:39:01 Alan. No. So what is an albino
Speaker 4 00:39:03 Now? Uh, well, what I came to find out was an Eleanor was where people go to be surrounded by support and get help who
Speaker 1 00:39:12 Was most supportive to you? Who,
Speaker 4 00:39:15 Um,
Speaker 1 00:39:16 In those early days,
Speaker 4 00:39:18 In those early days, I would have to say it would have to be my sponsor.
Speaker 1 00:39:23 Okay. And what's a sponsor.
Speaker 4 00:39:25 Now a sponsor is someone who at that time took me under their wing and took me through the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous. It's a 12 steps being taught to you through the big book. Now that individual is someone that helps you or helped me speak for myself. Help me in that time, navigate the waters of recovery. No, none of this mind you, Nick. I knew at the time I didn't, it was just do, as you're told Ron cell,
Speaker 1 00:40:00 Like moving from Guyana to the United States, just do, as you're told. So you're still a fucking child. Yes. When are you fucking Peter pan over
Speaker 4 00:40:09 Here? Yo
Speaker 4 00:40:15 No. Why? Why grow up when it's so much fun when it's, you know, when no one is telling me to grow up, no one is telling me Ron cell, you have, you, you have reached a stage in your life where these qualities that you possess need to be channeled differently, right? No one said Ron, sell these potentials that you have. They're great. They're wonderful. They're beautiful here. Here's an idea. How about we do this? A redo, you know, at that age, I think back about it. The thing with young men and women running into strong individuals at certain points in their lives is very important. But then again, me running into the program was how I was going to do that, right? Because Ron cell lives lives according to his cold and his, his logs. Right.
Speaker 1 00:41:11 I was just like, I can't not laugh at that.
Speaker 4 00:41:15 So the universe would have it that I have to hit the hardest rock before that change could be, could be introduced into my life. So that person that was the most supportive to me was that sponsor whom I met right after graduating grace counseling. I met him at grace counseling. Why? Because he was there giving his time. He was there speaking. It was a speaker night. And what speaker nights are, is, is when people in recovery with a certain amount of recovery, feel comfortable enough within their recovery to go and share. And maybe indeed we know it. Those of us in recovery know when that time hits and you can go and give something back. So that's what he was doing. And that's how come I heard him? I heard his message and it resonated with me because what I learned was when people are like, oh, when you find a sponsor, which I didn't know at a time, they have to agree with you.
Speaker 4 00:42:11 Something about their journey. Something about their recovery has to resonate with you because you find a sponsor where it doesn't, then you're going to bump heads. It isn't more or less going to work. It can work just not as smoothly. I don't believe. But then I looked out, I found a guy right off the bat, not knowing anything about AA, not knowing anything about recovery, just graduated this thing, that's going to make me better. And here he is. I heard his story resonated with me, asked him to be my sponsor. Boom journey started well continue. Cause it started wow before that
Speaker 1 00:42:45 Right now, because you had never even heard of a right. I would like you to explain, how would you explain AA to a younger person or just any person that has no idea what AA is? How would you describe a,
Speaker 4 00:43:05 Um, I would describe AA to a younger individual that don't know what it's about. I would describe AA as a place where you learn how to live. You learn truly how to live. Now. AA has the stigma of you have to have a problem to be a part of this group. I found AA due to having a problem, but being in AA, it showed me that my problem that I had was, but a symptom of how I can live. So to younger individuals out there not knowing a thing about AA like me, like I, Nick, I know that I'm in it. I couldn't even tell you. It sounds so weird saying I didn't know. It existed at one point in my life. Like it sounds so surreal and trivial coming out of my mouth that I didn't know it ever existed. However, that's all it needed to be. Once I found it, I know there is no oil back once I found it now, meaning not just knowing it's down the road, not just knowing, oh, there's a building over there with a sign and that's where drunks go. Or addicts go to get help. No, no, not in that of finding it, but the S the true sense and finding it in a way where the literature we're now into literature, we're now living our principles and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 00:44:43 You want to make clear to anyone out there that is listening. The only requirement for membership in AA to call yourself a member of AA is an honest desire to stop drinking. That's it take it at face fucking value. The only requirement to call yourself a I'm not telling somebody else to tell yourself,
Speaker 1 00:45:11 Yes, is a desire to stop drinking. It doesn't even mean you have to be sober. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. All that is required is a desire to stop drinking. And there are plenty of AA meetings out there where you don't have to identify as an alcoholic to attend. Those are called open meetings. Some are open, some are closed. And the ones that are closed are reserved for the people that have a desire to stop drinking. A lot of the meetings that I go to, I would say 80% of the meetings that I go to are open meetings, open mixed meetings, meeting both men and women, and it's open. Anyone can attend. Yes.
Speaker 4 00:45:49 Yes. What a
Speaker 1 00:45:50 Beautiful, welcome mat. That is. Yes.
Speaker 4 00:45:54 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:45:55 And that's really what it is. It's welcome. Yes. It's welcome. Yes. It's not. You need to stay here. This is the only place you're going to be able to stay sober. It's just welcome. Glad you're here because you're attending for some reason, and I hope you get some answers. There's some sort of explanation or some sort of support and help, which is inevitable. Walking into an AA meeting. You will always have somebody there ready to help.
Speaker 4 00:46:21 Yes. Nick, on that note have an open meeting, close meetings and just AA meetings in general. A few weeks ago, I was out at, at grace counseling, that treatment center that I graduated from. And there's a new meeting out there on Monday nights at seven, you can get there at six for an hour fellowship right now, fellowship is where people are around other sober people, practicing recovery, or are living recovery. And so they feel comfortable, right? Wherever they are, again, with the desire to stop drinking. That's why we're there. Now throughout that meeting, Nick, there was a man in that meeting that was not an addict. Hmm. Did they tell you that again? Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:47:04 They came for the fellowship right now. I'll say that again. That man was there. That was not an addict. He was not an alcoholic, nor does he struggle with drugs. He has a son, Leon, big shout out. Leon does a lot for recovery. Now. He was the one hosting that meeting. Now that was his father and his father. I learned that night at his father. Was there just, just to be around the energy, just to know that this program saved his son's life. And his son is responsible for all these, while many people, 30 to 40 people within that building that night, for those of us out there wondering what does a thing is? And that's exactly what Nick just said, it's open or closed. You, you feel like you had the desire to change in your life, the desire to change anything in your life, eating right, sex, alcohol, drugs, anything you feel it's holding you down.
Speaker 4 00:48:02 You walk in those doors and you just sit, listen, be just be. And I didn't come to that realization until that night really, really been in this program for, for a few years. And there's a man sitting across from me. That's not an addict, but he's in the same room that I'm in because I'm an addict. And when he shared and I heard him share why he was there, oh man, it opened another door for me. It said, it said to me, you mean Ron cell. You don't have to be an addict to be here. Just that simple thought. And then I can sit in that. And that's the beauty of this program now.
Speaker 1 00:48:45 And I will say that out of the thousands and thousands of meetings that I've attended over the last five years, I've never once seen someone asked to leave because they don't have a problem. Everyone has problems. And what the 12 steps with the program of alcoholics anonymous provides is a spiritual solution to a very human problem. And your human problem fill in the fucking blank could be codependency, could be overeating. It could be under eating or not. Eating could be bullying. It could be shaming. Any of that shit, it's a spiritual solution to a very human problem. And all the 12 steps are our suggestions. That's the word that they use. These are, but suggestions.
Speaker 4 00:49:40 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:49:40 Check out and see what we got. And if that's something that you want, there's someone here that'll do it with you.
Speaker 4 00:49:46 That's exactly it. Me. I found they were trying to tell me what to do. Right? They're trying to tell me what to do. Well, no one tells me what to do. I've been doing what I want to do all my life, but their suggestions were just suggesting you may be do this. We are suggesting you do this third step. And the magicable what you just said, Nick, about all those things you just listed for me, they all unfolded as I went through the program, like some of these things, I didn't know, I had playing
Speaker 1 00:50:16 Fucking whack-a-mole. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:50:18 Yeah. Like
Speaker 1 00:50:19 Pop up. Feel like I'm back at Chuckie cheese, man. Give me those tickets so I can get some fucking pixie sticks.
Speaker 4 00:50:25 God, that's spiritual Malik. You must, You best believe brother. I got that spiritual magic.
Speaker 1 00:50:34 That's actually going to be the name of your episode is run. Sell the spiritual mallet. Yes. I love it. I want to talk about the steps. Well, first of all, you talked about a sponsor. Do they use sponsor? I do not.
Speaker 4 00:50:48 Uh, why not? Aw. That's, that's something that's I've been thinking about. And I've been going over my mind in a sense it's fear right now that that's something I do not live my life by fear, but I constantly have to remind myself that,
Speaker 1 00:51:05 You know what fear stands for, right? Fuck everything and run. Yes. That's what fear is. We we're we're pain, averse individuals. We're pain, averse creatures. So what are we going to do when something is difficult, challenging, scary, literally, and figuratively. We go in the other direction as fast as we can. What the 12 steps teach us to do is to face them and to use these tools, right? Spiritual toolkit, which is the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous. And all we can do is hope to practice these steps to the best of our ability one day at a time. And that makes it so much more palatable. Yeah. There are 12 steps. That's why you have a sponsor to take you through them. And that was kind of why I was poking the bear because Ron, Sally you've been sober for six years. Yes. Why the fuck are you not sponsoring other people?
Speaker 1 00:52:02 Because that is our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. You know it right? And this isn't a shame, no sponsor shame thing going on, please bring it. What I loved about my very first sponsor, who is my current sponsor, he gave me two specific guidelines or questions that he asked me in order for him to accept me as a sponsee. He said, first answer these two questions. Number one, are you willing to be completely honest with me? He didn't say, be completely honest with me. He said, are you willing to be completely honest with me? And two, are you willing to, to help take other men through the program? Like I am about to take you through the program. It's just willingness. That's all he asked me for. He didn't ask me for a 15 page paper. He didn't ask me to go take a newcomer to detox or anything like that.
Speaker 1 00:53:03 All he asked was willingness, willingness to be honest, right? And willingness to help other people achieve, maintain attain sobriety. And that's really what AA is at its bare fucking bones is one alcoholic helping another alcoholic. That is literally the definition of a meeting is one alcoholic working with another alcoholic. Anywhere two alcoholics are gathered together, a meeting is happening. Right. So yes. I suggest yes. That you be willing to raise your hand. Yes. Raise your hand at a meeting and say, yes, I'm willing to sponsor because you got some good shit, man. You got, you got the good shit you guys. And it's in that Ziploc, baggy. It's just ready to be opened up.
Speaker 4 00:53:55 Yes. And that's that's, that's it, you know, that's really what it is. You know? So the, you know, to whoever's listening out there, you guys are witnessing it in the flesh right now in the moment that this man is helping me to, to have perspectives about my fear right now, it happens every everywhere, everywhere. Now, Nick, to go off of that, what I'm learning about myself is I'm very stubborn right now, now, and selfish along with other things. Now the program for me and going back to why, I guess this fear is there about sponsoring is truly, truly selfish, truly selfish through that selfishness. I hope to find that thing because what I found out I've been doing is not forcing my, my recovery, not forcing things within my recovery, having it come organically. Naturally, this here is very organic. This interview that we're doing is organic to me.
Speaker 4 00:55:00 Why do I say that? Because I've been thinking about it in this sense that, oh, I'm going to talk to Nick or I'm gonna talk to anyone else in a room like that. No, but on the fact or in the world that it's going to manifest truly and purely when that time comes now, I've had friends say, Ron, would you sponsor me? Because I've told them I can sponsor people. I've been through the 12 steps. They've come to me, Ron. So would you be my sponsor? Yes. I would love to, you know, we'd go as far as setting up days and times and well, of course, those never happened now I've done it. Not only with friends with other people too. Oh, Roswell. Would you sponsor me? Oh yeah. Let's meet up now. Let's meet up here and there. Okay. And of course it never stuck. It never stuck. Now, Nick, it took me a few years to get through my 12 steps. Now this is something I share in maintenance or whenever I speak, I let people know. It took me years to do 12 steps. Now let that sink in years to do 12 steps. There are people back in the day that we'll hear about in the rooms that did these steps in a day. Why would an individual take so long to do steps?
Speaker 4 00:56:14 Yes. Right. But my sponsor, he couldn't go rots out. Meet me here. Meet me there. Well, who are you? I'm Ron cell Williams. Gosh, darn it. You don't tell me what to do. I meet you when I want to meet you. I talked to you when I want to talk to you. Right? So then that arrogance, that anger comes out because now I feel like he's trying to control my life. He's trying to tell me what to do all of a sudden. Okay? Why don't Ron sell sponsor that fear's there Nick, because as you can see, it goes personally deeper for me through my process. Right? However, the selfishness within that needs to be understood by myself. So then I can help others. So thank you. Thank you. Why am I not doing it? What is stopping me from raising my hand? Fear,
Speaker 1 00:57:10 Fear,
Speaker 4 00:57:12 Fear.
Speaker 1 00:57:13 So there's two kinds of fear. As I understand it, first is fear that I'm not going to get something that I want. And the other is I'm afraid I'm going to lose something that I have, and that can be applied to every single fear written inner monologue I've ever had. Like, am I afraid that I'm going to lose the money that I have? Or am I going to be afraid that I'm not going to have money? Right. Money's a big one. Yes. Money love. Yeah. Those are two big ones.
Speaker 4 00:57:47 And to just add to that, the fear of attaining your goal, the fear of being that person, you know, like, like, like I think to myself, well, I want to achieve so much, so much in life. I want to be this. I want to do that. I want to go here. However, like you said, money, I like, well I want a million dollars. What would I do if I had a million dollars? And then all of a sudden the fear pops up. Well, the fear of what, no, I have it. Now the fear comes, what do I do with it? Is it going to be good enough? What I do with all this,
Speaker 1 00:58:14 Who's going to try and take it on different fear. How's this going to change me? And it's that intermodal. And that is the perfect, perfect opportunity to reach out to another alcoholic, drug addict, compulsive gambler, eating disordered person. Any of those things I need to get out of my own way. You already said it. Yes. I have a Nick problem. Nick gets in Nick's way and then he starts talking a third fucking person and all of a sudden it's a really bad mind. Fuck. Run, sell, picking up. Oh, pick a number one through 12 six. Okay. So six step six in the program of alcoholics anonymous. You know what it is? It's so hard. It's just so hard. It's so hard when people put you on the spot. Okay. So six, remind me, Nick, we're entirely ready to have God remove these defects of character.
Speaker 1 00:59:05 To me, just as kind of a buildup step six comes after steps four and five. Obviously what happens in four? Taking an honest self-appraisal like any good business does we have to take inventory? We have to look at the stock in trade, right? Figure out where we were wrong. Figure out where we need to make things right. And then in the fifth step, we talk about those things out loud. You know, the people, places and things that we've harmed our insecurities, our fears, it's just a huge purge, a personal house cleaning. Right, right. Now, once we've said those out loud to God, to ourselves and to another human being, then we come to step six where we became entirely ready to have God remove these defects of character. I do want to say before you answer that the word God is thrown around a lot in AA rooms, just in general.
Speaker 1 00:59:59 It's just God, this God that God, this God, that the only thing that the AA program is talking about is belief in something bigger than myself. Because once again, I have to tell people that I have a very human problem that I cannot solve, right? It's gotta be something bigger than me that I need to trust in to have these defects of character that were identified informant five, to have those removed. And that's the crazy thing is like, oh man, I just brought up all the fucked up shit that I've ever done said thought. And then all of a sudden I have to trust or become entirely ready to have this higher power. You can choose to call it whatever you want, but it has to be something that's bigger than you because you're giving this thing. He, she, they, it doesn't matter. Right? You have to give away your shit, right.
Speaker 1 01:00:58 To something bigger than you with the belief or a willingness to believe that those defects of character can and will be removed. If we practice these steps to the best of our ability. So you chose six. What does that step look like for you becoming entirely ready to have God remove these defects of character, by the way, what is the name of your higher power? Do you choose the word God? Or do you choose a different word? God. Okay. I chose God because it's a, it's a great acronym. Good orderly direction or group of drunks. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not, definitely not the God of my upbringing, but that's a piece of it. Yes. It's certainly a piece of it. Absolutely. You know what my God is? What's that? I don't know. Hmm that's I live in the of no, because if I try, if I try and define it, all of a sudden, I'm going to start thinking a lot about me.
Speaker 1 01:01:59 And the more I think about me, the closer I am to my next drink and the further away from my higher power, I become either you're growing or you're dying there ain't no third direction in life. There's no such thing as staying the same. So either I'm growing toward the perfection, which is my higher power, which I can come to believe that we'll remove these defects of, or I will try and sooth with an outside source, right? Alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex, eating disorder, self harm. This could go on and on and on. Okay. So what's step six for you. How do you practice? Step six,
Speaker 4 01:02:32 Step six. We're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character, man. That one, like all the steps. So powerful. Right. But on a guess and the way I've been living my life, I would choose six in this moment. Okay. Nick I'm like you said, four and five came for me before six. Now, once I went through the dreaded four, which I did know at a time was the dreaded step. Once I got into it, I understood why four is so feared right now, please, to those of us out there listening, do not associate fear with this. I'm not trying to fear monger here. I'm just simply trying to explain something that is very real and true. I, as a person did not want to step forward, did not want to look into myself and, and face those things, those dark things. However, since it's saw do, as your told drawn cell, we do, as we were told, so going through step four naturally had to happen.
Speaker 4 01:03:45 Okay. So I went through step four, got through that with the help of my sponsor, cleared up some stuff. And then I was able to do more, more doors open for me within this process of, of recovery. And so went on to five and six were entirely ready to have God remove these defects of character. How was Ron cell entirely ready? What is God to Ron cell? What are defects of character? When I did four and five dos prepped me for six, I had a better understanding of what God meant to me by step six, entirely ready. The only way I'm entirely ready for anything is if I have a belief that it's going to work, or I was beat the fuck down to the point where I have no audit choice den to be ready, no other choice at that point in my life, whether I knew it or not, I was, or I had to be entirely ready to have this higher power that I accepted as God.
Speaker 4 01:04:59 What I came to understand as well is that AA is a spiritual program. You know, spirituality and God, I came to understand two different things. Now, once I got that understanding, I was able not to focus so much on this God thing, trying to wrap my mind around understanding does God thing, making it tangible in some way. And like you said, Nick, then it just forces me to understand it, get a grasp of it. And I'm thinking about myself because I have now wrapped my mind around God. So if I could understand God, then of course I understand me.
Speaker 1 01:05:37 Well, at that point you might as well, just be God,
Speaker 4 01:05:40 Then I might as well be God. Right? So then this higher power that I'm supposed to give, give these things up to. I have now reclaimed them. So step six is entirely ready. Me, Ron cell being entirely ready to have this higher power of my spiritual being or my spiritual nature, remove character defects. Now character defects. I learned as I went through my step four, as I started going through the muck with my sponsor, I'm like, well, my sponsor's like, Hmm. Okay. And open my mind to, well, Ron sold, do you really think that don't you think that there's a little bit of anger in there who don't do think there was a little bit of selfishness in there? Don't you think there was a little bit of lust in there? Well, well what, what is anger and less than, and dead have to do with me. Well, Ron sell, have you heard of character defects? Those that's what that's called. Maybe that's a character defect you have what might.
Speaker 1 01:06:39 Yeah. And you know what, when it was explained so simple, what are your defects of character? And really my sponsor broke it down to me as four key ingredients for my character. Defects is selfishness. Second one is dishonesty. Third is the absence of love. And fourth is impurity and really every single defect of character that I can identify falls underneath one of those four categories. So then I flipped the script and I asked myself each day, how can I be selfless? Right. How can I be honest? Right. How can I be pure? Right. And how can I be loving? Yes,
Speaker 4 01:07:24 Sir. Yes,
Speaker 1 01:07:25 Sir. Flip it on its ass. Take that M and me flip it upside down. You got a w in we
Speaker 4 01:07:31 Oh, beautiful. Oh, I'm taking that. I felt good. Oh, if you said it and I felt good.
Speaker 1 01:07:40 I think I just came, you know, you
Speaker 4 01:07:42 Just said, I felt cool.
Speaker 1 01:07:44 Yeah. It felt great. Wow. Yeah. Whoa, nothing I say is original. I love there's a quote by Hank Williams, a senior, all the best country songs have already been written. And that's just how I look at life. Everything I've done has been done before. Right. How am I going to make it mine? And part of mine is sharing with a higher power. Yes. And a fellow. Yes.
Speaker 4 01:08:11 That's, what's mine, you know? And it's it just going off of that. It's beautiful. You said that, you know, no originality bit, I guess for me, I get a chance to take what isn't or it was never really original. Right. And change it a little run, sell tweak. Yeah. Rewrite it a little. Right, right. And that's all, this is,
Speaker 1 01:08:30 This is just a fucking repeat. Yeah. We've already done this 300 years ago. We were just chilling in a cornfield in Nebraska. And we were just absolutely just rapping at each other.
Speaker 4 01:08:43 Absolutely man. And that's, that's the, that's the magic and the beauty about it. It can only, it can only be unfolded through trusting the process right. Through Ron sill, trusting this process, this road, this journey that he's on, will other doors be opened to him that would have never been opened otherwise. Yeah. Nick, like I said, me even being here is something that wasn't manifested through my thought it's through me wanting to help the universe knows that I want to give back. And I do. I do. Uh, okay. Let's say me coming out of the generation. We're the same age, right? I'm I'm 34. I come from a background where technology, wasn't a thing in my life. Right. I grew up not typing, not nothing, no technology. Then I get to the states and then I had to learn about computers. And I had to learn about technology.
Speaker 4 01:09:39 It's like, boom. I just went like years, uh, beyond where I'm coming from now. We still have that kid. That's rooted in doing things organically, going outside and playing in the dirt, thinking about something and just trusting. Well, man, that'd be cool if that happened. And one day it happens and you're like, whoa, the man, I thought about that a few weeks ago. And here it is crossing over into this generation, into this world being as old as I am. It's like, the universe knows we're on soul wants to help, but how can he help through technology right now? Ronsel, didn't grow up with technology. So now that's new for me. And I know a lot of the listeners are going on, man. You know, we were born with a phone in our hand. What do you mean? You can't get online and say a few things, inspire people and, and help that way. And it's like, there's the fear thing again, guys, because remember we all come from such different backgrounds, doing something that may be organic to you may be such a struggle in such a hill for someone else to get over my friends. I'm sharing with you that eight I'll all and AA it's technology for Ron Saul Williams, getting on the phone and making a little clip or even doing this with you right now, man, sometimes it's, I'm shaking because it's not a natural habitat for me.
Speaker 1 01:10:52 Can I get a room? You got your phone. Is it bothering you right now to have the knowledge that your phone is off? No.
Speaker 4 01:11:00 Well, that's good. Don't you see? That's the thing I can, I can leave my phone somewhere, go get lost in the world and not think about it. Whereas other people are like, bro, I've been calling you for the path where and mad at me. And I'm like, bro, chill out. I was,
Speaker 1 01:11:16 It's such a right now culture that we live in. Yes.
Speaker 4 01:11:20 But, but to, to, to bring that to light Nick to, to bring that point in is that this here is organic. You approaching me that morning and saying, Hey Ron, so would you like to be a guest on, to be interviewed on my show? I couldn't tell you at the time Nick, but I was thinking in my head I was jumping. I was, I was clapping my hands. I was screaming. I was just, yes. Look at that. I didn't have to force that. I didn't have to go out and beseech Nick and hunt them down. And no, no, no, no. He approached me, but that's being on a, on, on a frequency, on a frequency doing this work, spreading this message that we don't need to seek it. It will find us. Yes.
Speaker 1 01:12:00 Yes. We are an organic show here. Just free range. Cage-free alcoholics
Speaker 4 01:12:11 Went off, went off script on that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:12:14 We're antibiotic free here on authentic. We are so organic. We're going to take a little break. And when we come back, run cell is going to talk about my favorite four letter word. No, it's not. Fuck it's. Oh, so hope tune in next week for the rest of runs sells story in which he will talk about favorite four letter word. No, it's not it's H O P E O
