Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hey you. Yeah, you, if you or someone you know, is struggling with anything mentioned on today's program, please, please, please, please, please, please email
[email protected]. That's a U T H E N I C K. The
[email protected]. I am available 24 seven three 65 to help in any way that I can. I have resources. I have open ears and open heart and tons of hope. I've been freely given all these things and would love to give them to you. Be good to yourselves and each other. Follow me on Twitter, using the handle at authen, Nick and my dog, Marla on Instagram at DJ Marla dot Jean. Before we get started today, I would like to tell you that suicide is mentioned multiple times. In this episode, if you or someone you know is going to be triggered by that, or you're struggling with suicidal ideation or you have a plan to commit suicide, please reach out, speak with a counselor today at the national suicide prevention lifeline, their number is +1 800-273-8255. That's +1 800-273-8255. <inaudible> welcome. Welcome, welcome,
Speaker 1 00:02:04 Welcome. Welcome to the show
Speaker 0 00:02:08 You are listening to off that.
Speaker 1 00:02:14 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:02:20 Welcome to the show. My name is Nicholas Thomas Fitzsimmons Vanden Heuvel but most people call me Nick. And this is my show.
Speaker 1 00:02:29 It's like authentic, but instead of tick, put in neck
Speaker 0 00:02:34 And with me as always is my dog Marla.
Speaker 1 00:02:53 All right, that's
Speaker 0 00:02:55 Marla. Why don't you go back to hanging with Casey and Joe Joe, welcome to the show. We are here for one reason. We're going to talk about all things recovery. What do I mean by that? All things recovery. Well, what I mean by that is if you are still living and breathing on this earth, you, yes, you are in recovery from something. As for myself, I am in recovery from alcoholism. I'm an alcoholic. I'm also a drug addict. I have an eating disorder. I bipolar disorder. I'm a compulsive gambler. Really the list could go on and on and on, but nobody wants to hear about that. What they do want to hear about is the experience, strength and hope. That is about to transpire. On today's episode. We have two people that this episode is for first is my guest. Michelle. Second is the one person that Michelle is going to help on today's episode. NA not help save a life. Michelle, please introduce your faith in any way you see fit. Hello? I'm Michelle. I'm sorry. Could you say that again for me? That was too cute. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:03:57 I am Michelle. Hello everyone.
Speaker 0 00:03:59 Hi. Would you like to say anything about yourself or is that at stick with I am Michelle.
Speaker 2 00:04:06 I think it's good introduction. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:08 It's self explanatory. Social awkwardness. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to have an awkward silence real quick? Yeah. That's okay. Okay. Let's let's continue with the show. Shall we? Okay. Why are you here tonight?
Speaker 2 00:04:25 I am here to bring awareness to suicide and suicide prevention tactics that I use.
Speaker 0 00:04:33 You are somebody that struggles with suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideation attempted to commit suicide. You're still sitting here. So yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:41 Yes, I didn't achieve it, but thank goodness. Yes, but I have tried once and it is something that I have dealt with for majority of my life
Speaker 0 00:04:53 Is the underlying feeling thought thing inside of you that puts you in that place that puts you in this idea that I no longer want to live. When did that sort of underlying things start? What was that thing?
Speaker 2 00:05:06 I would have to say I had a pretty rough childhood at a certain point. It hit me that this is not how life should be. It kind of got stuck in my head that if I didn't want to do it anymore, I didn't have to. And that built suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 0 00:05:25 What was it about your childhood that created that atmosphere inside your head?
Speaker 2 00:05:29 I'd say problem. Number one, an extremely abusive stepfather, a very unstable household. I was the youngest of five. My mother was gone working all the time. Five kids left alone in the house with an abusive individual, jumbles you up a little.
Speaker 0 00:05:46 What sort of abusive behaviors was he engaging?
Speaker 2 00:05:50 But he was a big fan of physically laying hands on you. One of his second favorites was he would have us hold our ankles, which is where you have to have a firm grip on your ankles with your hands and your knees have to be locked. And he would make us stay there pretty much from the morning until our mom got home. It would get to the point. If you had to use the bathroom, you'd have to go on yourself and then you'd have to sit in it and clean it up later.
Speaker 0 00:06:17 Michelle, I am so sorry that that happened to you. Thank you for wow. I'm blown away. Thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 2 00:06:24 You're welcome. I it's healing to get it out.
Speaker 0 00:06:28 I'm just awestruck. When you come into this studio and you talk about your anxiousness and you're just like, ah, I really didn't want to come here today. But then my fiance Cody, who's also done the show in the past said, Hey, Nick's going to be picking you up at seven 30 and here you are. And here I am got to commit. At what age did the abuse?
Speaker 2 00:06:50 The earliest that I could remember is three years old. I was at the time. The very worst of it that I recall is I had opened the door for my uncle, who I was not aware of at the time was a rapist. I had gotten severely beat for it and had cuts and bruises and lacerations on my bottom for about two to three weeks.
Speaker 0 00:07:14 First, a child should never go through something like that ever. It's so hard to think that people have that capacity to do something so malicious, so fucked up to think that people like that exist makes me sick. It makes me sick to my stomach. Here. You are telling your story of recovery because you are still living and breathing. I hope you know that, that you are in recovery. From that experience, that horrific experience. What did those experiences do to you psychologically? What was going on upstairs in your head?
Speaker 2 00:07:52 I would say it definitely instilled the thought that something was wrong with me.
Speaker 0 00:07:57 This underlying thought that something is wrong with me.
Speaker 2 00:08:02 There has to be something I'm doing wrong to deserve that treatment.
Speaker 0 00:08:08 That was a message that stayed with you through childhood. Would you say it stayed with you still today?
Speaker 2 00:08:14 Yeah, it's something I still struggle with today.
Speaker 0 00:08:17 I want to go back to these early years when you were being abused, where were you at mentally? Was there any sort of depression sinking in what sort of led up to these suicidal thoughts that eventually occurred because of these heinous acts?
Speaker 2 00:08:35 I'd say at first I didn't really feel that way. It was more so confusion. Cause I was a little once I got around the age of seven or eight is when I started to have darker thoughts.
Speaker 0 00:08:50 What were those darker thoughts? Can you, can you vocalize any of those? I wouldn't necessarily say it started
Speaker 2 00:08:56 Off with suicidal thoughts. It kind of started off with, well, I hope he takes it too far and I don't have to do this anymore.
Speaker 0 00:09:03 As in your stepdad, you hope he takes it so far to where you no longer exist and you don't have to endure this pain and this abuse and this neglect at that level. How long did the abuse carry on for
Speaker 2 00:09:19 Last time it happened. I was about a week and a half away from my 14th birthday.
Speaker 0 00:09:25 How old are you right now? 22. So that's still pretty fresh. It was eight years ago that it ended. And you said it started basically could first make memories when you were three years old. That makes 11 years of abuse and eight years of recovery. That's some pretty powerful shit that you're sitting here and talking about this right now. It's unbelievable. No, you, you are amazing. You are amazing. It's just, it's beautiful to watch you get in touch with that and be so vulnerable. I'm honored
Speaker 2 00:09:55 Taking a lot of work, even three and a half before I met Cody. I wasn't even comfortable talking about it.
Speaker 0 00:10:01 You ever tell anybody about it? I'm talking about before the abuse ended while the abuse was going on, did you ever tell your mom,
Speaker 2 00:10:09 Tell my mom she was also being abused at the time? Yes. The most that she could do was have us move out without him knowing. And that's part of why my home life was so unstable because we were moving almost every year to get away and he would find me,
Speaker 0 00:10:26 What were you doing? Cope with the abuse beyond these thoughts that wishing for the end, wishing he would take it too far. That probably was in the moment. I want to know what you were doing to cope with that when the abuse wasn't happening. If you weren't talking to anybody else about it, no teachers, no counselors, friends,
Speaker 2 00:10:45 At least for the first few years, what helped me manage it was thinking like, Hey, if my mom can go through it and she's still here and she's still fighting, I can do it too.
Speaker 0 00:10:56 Do it too. It's such a foreign thought to me. I myself have never gone through that. There's no way that I can understand that. That's the thing about trauma and about these things that happen in our life, these things that define us, whether it controls us is a different story. That's part of who we are embracing. That is hard work. Like you said, the thing about abusive relationships is that I see people that say, I just want to stay. Maybe, maybe they will change. Maybe they will change. Maybe this is just temporary and they will change underneath everything. They're a great person making these excuses for their behavior. Did you ever make any of those excuses for his behavior? Did you have some sort of explanation in your head about that? Why it was happening
Speaker 2 00:11:46 In my younger years, made excuses for him? Well, maybe he just had a bad day or he didn't sleep enough. He just has anger issues. He doesn't know how to deal with them. So this is how he deals with it. Later on in life, I realized there was no excuse for that behavior. It was just him hurting people because he felt he could.
Speaker 0 00:12:05 When the abuse stopped at 14, what happened? Why did it all of a sudden stop? Did you
Speaker 2 00:12:11 The last altercation that happened? All I recall was he was going after my mom trying to kick down the bathroom door. At that time, I was probably about to turn 14 years old. My older brothers stepped in, tried to get him out of the house. And I had called the police and he had left before they got there. I'm pretty sure he went to jail a couple of weeks later and stayed there for quite a while. So I think that's what kept him away. Cause we moved during that time and I guess he didn't know where we went. Is he still incarcerated? He's been in and out. He just recently got back out about a month and a half ago for the same thing. How do you know about that? My mother still keeps in contact with them.
Speaker 0 00:12:52 She does. What sort of relationship is that? Okay.
Speaker 2 00:12:54 I guess they're friends. Friends, I guess.
Speaker 0 00:12:58 Did he ever come back for you guys? No.
Speaker 2 00:13:00 For a long time. I didn't see him again after that until I was about 19, 20 years old.
Speaker 0 00:13:06 What were your thoughts in between 14 and 19 about him?
Speaker 2 00:13:09 I didn't have many. I knew he was in jail. I knew he was in prison and I just hope that it stayed that way. That that's where he
Speaker 0 00:13:16 No other feelings for about to him. No,
Speaker 2 00:13:20 I held a lot of resentments a lot. I still do.
Speaker 0 00:13:24 What did you do with those resentments?
Speaker 2 00:13:26 Those are things that I'm still working through. I held a lot of them towards my mom and those are the primary ones that I have worked through with him. I haven't really touched the surface
Speaker 0 00:13:36 Well that for so many people that have traumatic situations that have gone through these immense traumas, they turn to coping mechanisms, compulsive behaviors, drinking, drugging some way to numb out this pain, this fear, this anxiety, this depression, what sort of activities did you engage in then to not think about that?
Speaker 2 00:13:59 About 11 years old, I started smoking cigarettes and marijuana and that gradually increased in usage throughout middle school. And then by high school, I was experimenting with stronger drugs, half of which I didn't even know. And I was taking that, stayed that way for a long time. That was my daily routine. As soon as I woke up drugged up. So I didn't feel so. I didn't think that didn't help because most of the time I woke up angry and went to bed angry and was just a very bitter angry mean person.
Speaker 0 00:14:33 Keep in your head. What space did they put you in
Speaker 2 00:14:36 Numb? That was my goal numb because I was still in a pretty unstable, dysfunctional living situation because some of the traits my stepfather held carried on into my brothers. Did your brothers abuse you? One? My second oldest brother.
Speaker 0 00:14:54 Do you still talk to him, your brother?
Speaker 2 00:14:57 Very estranged relationship. I do still talk to him, but I don't necessarily feel safe. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:15:03 Were his abusive actions towards you ever addressed?
Speaker 2 00:15:06 No. The only time I recall anyone ever confronting him on it, it was my grandma, Alice. She had witnessed an incident she's old school. So she took her slipper off and started going upside of that. That was very, it was very fun thing to watch.
Speaker 0 00:15:27 You're sober now. Yes, that's wild. Isn't it? It is from, from starting to numb out at such a young age. You said you started using when you were 11 smoking cigarettes and smoking weed. And then that graduated as you got older. Did you have any sort of consequences for your drug use
Speaker 2 00:15:44 Physically? Absolutely. At one point I got down to about 80 pounds. I got to the point where my doctors kept asking me if I had an eating disorder. I didn't, I just wouldn't eat because I would get high. Now I'm out on top of the depression. I just didn't have the appetite basically starving myself that had to change. I had to be physically removed from the home by a friend of mine. She put me in my own little rehab at her house. What would you like to say to her that she's the bees knees. She's super cool. I appreciate all of her help and support. And I love her.
Speaker 0 00:16:16 You have any sort of spirituality in your home growing up, any sort of religious affiliation?
Speaker 2 00:16:22 I did. My mother is a Jehovah's witness, very strict household and kingdom hall. Once a week, every week, Bible studies
Speaker 0 00:16:30 And all that. What was your relationship to that religion? That way of life?
Speaker 2 00:16:35 Not a fan. First thing that I noticed at also a young age, probably around 10 or 11, was that the men ran everything and the women were basically supposed to do what they were told. I did not like that at all. Eventually I was forced into a Bible study where I got an even closer look at it. Notice that even that those characteristics of the kingdom hall were taken into their household. It wasn't just at church. It was also at home. The men ran everything. I didn't like that. When I became a teenager and started developing my own identity and getting started, stretching my ears, getting piercings and things and dressing how I like to dress. I started being outcasted for that low jabs from people at the kingdom hall, about the way I dressed and the way it looked and the makeup I had on. And
Speaker 0 00:17:24 I think that the way that you were brought up with the abuse and then with this extremely strict, extremely misogynistic experience with religion growing up, do you think that's directly correlated with how you chose to express yourself? Do you think because of the rigidity you decided to go complete one 80, totally against that shit. I'm going to gauge my ears. I'm going to have tons of piercings. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2 00:17:51 Absolutely. That's when I discovered my favorite color
Speaker 0 00:17:55 Black is certainly a color. I hate, I hate it. When people say black is the Aspen. Fuck you black. Some black is beautiful. It is. It is most of you. And by most of you, none of you can see Michelle sitting across from me. Michelle is black. I am, I am white. Do you choose to be referred to as if you are going to be referred to as if someone were to say, Oh, he's white guy about this. Hi, do you prefer to be referred to as African American or black? If someone were to describe you?
Speaker 2 00:18:32 I prefer African-American okay.
Speaker 0 00:18:34 I apologize for my inference. Oh my God. Marla just started so bad. Oh my gosh. Oh, Lordy, Marla, come on, man. I apologize for making that assumption. Well, thank you. You know what they say about assuming it has, it has to SS I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2 00:18:58 That's all right. I appreciate the Apollo.
Speaker 0 00:19:00 How many African Americans were there that were Jehovah's witnesses in your group?
Speaker 2 00:19:05 The people at my kingdom hall, probably a third, the other third would be several ethnic races, make stent like Hispanic and Asian. And then a third would be cocky.
Speaker 0 00:19:18 You said that there was this hierarchy. The men were above the women was that same hierarchy in existence between races in that church.
Speaker 2 00:19:28 Primarily from what I recall of the years that I went, I had only seen one ethnic person of the hierarchy in the kingdom hall. And he was an Indian man. And that's it native? Yes. Thank you. I apologize.
Speaker 0 00:19:44 Okay. There's so many apologies. And any time talking about race or anything like that, it's just like, God, can we just throw this political correctness out the fucking window and just be like, this is a woman. This is a man. This is the world that we live in, where people are labeled by their color, by their height, by their weight. By how they,
Speaker 2 00:20:07 I actually remember his name. What was his name? It was brother Nali. Sandra
Speaker 0 00:20:12 Nali. Sandra. Did you have any sort of spirituality that was bumping up against Jehovah's witness?
Speaker 2 00:20:20 I didn't have any. I was actually because I was forced to attend that religion and to be a part of that religion, I was very anti God anti religion.
Speaker 0 00:20:31 So far as to say you were an atheist. Yes, absolutely. How did that atheism carry you through your next years into your late teens? Do you think that your atheism has somewhat of a correlation to your suicidal thoughts? The belief that there is nothing bigger than me. There's no higher power. There is no,
Speaker 2 00:20:54 Absolutely. The way I saw it was if I don't have anyone and there's no one up there looking out for me, what's the purpose of all of this. There is no purpose. It's just endless pain for no reason.
Speaker 0 00:21:07 What did your drug use work up to? How did your chemical dependence progress through your teenage years?
Speaker 2 00:21:14 I'd say primarily throughout middle school, it was cigarettes, alcohol and marijuana. Once high school hit, I started dabbling and like acid and other weird psychedelic things. Like I said, half of the things, I don't know what the fuck I was taking eventually that graduated into Xanax. And then that eventually graduated into Matthews. So I was back and forth between meth and Xanax. And then my partner helped convince me that I did have a problem because I thought that, Hey, I'm just young and dumb and having fun. I realized I do have a problem after a mental breakdown I had in the bathroom. What did that break down? Look like? The closest I can describe it to is a blackout. I have blackouts now because of abuse that I have been through. So whenever I feel physically unsafe or am physically harmed, I black out you don't feel safe and you check out. Yeah, it's just my body's react.
Speaker 0 00:22:10 And I'm sorry for putting it so bluntly, but that's basically what it is. Can't handle what's going on and your body just says, no, we done here by Holland. Did those blackouts laugh?
Speaker 2 00:22:22 The blackout I had in the bathroom before I went to treatment, I don't know how long it lasted. I remember when I came out of it, I was on the phone with Cody. What led up to the blackout anxiety. I was living in an apartment with my mom and my two brothers at the time. And my middle brother had started acting out. He wouldn't get out of my room. This is the aggressive brother that I don't feel comfortable around. I blacked out. I don't recall what happened after that. I just know I came out of it in the bathroom, covered in blood and cuts. And I was on the phone with Cody.
Speaker 0 00:22:57 You were covered in cuts. Somebody cut you self-inflicted I cut me now. We're peeling back the layers of the onion. If you're comfortable, I'd like to go a little deeper into that. I asked you what you were doing to cope with what was going on and you kind of glossed over it. You weren't really telling me what you were actually doing. Can we go there? How were you coping with the abuse? You said you were covered in cuts. When you woke up before you called your now fiance, what things were you doing to cope? When did you start cutting?
Speaker 2 00:23:28 I was 11. My mother had taken me out of school and put me on online school. And that was the only space I had away from home. So as you can imagine, being home all day with what was going on, why did she take you out school? I don't recall. I think at the time she didn't want me to go to school in Minneapolis because my elder siblings were going to school at Washburn. And at the time all that gang stuff was going on and she just didn't want me to go to school in the cities. So I was in school, out in Burnsville, but we were forced to move out to Minneapolis because of my stepfather. She took us out of school to homeschool us. When did you do your cutting? Usually at night. What did you use first? I started with a sewing needle. I would pretty much just dig it into my skin until I could get any form of blood on my wrists. Why there? I don't know. I'm not too sure. At first it just seemed like the easiest spot gradually. It became more of a, well it's 50 50. I connect something while I'm doing this. Maybe get lucky.
Speaker 0 00:24:34 Would you describe that as hi, absolutely. Knowing that you had a 50, 50 shot of hitting something and it was in your control. Absolutely. Maybe I'll do it. No one else is going to do this. If it's going to happen, it's going to be me. A lot of people cut places that are not visible, but you chose your risks because you said it was the easiest. Do you think that you chose the risks strictly because that's where a lot of people, when I think of people that are going to commit suicide, it's always the risk
Speaker 2 00:25:04 That partially could have influenced it as well. Part of me also was doing it more so far.
Speaker 0 00:25:11 Was anybody listening.
Speaker 2 00:25:13 My brother caught me in the act. Once my eldest brother, he just told me to stop. He asked me why I was doing it and told me to stop doing it. I don't know. That's what I told him. I don't know why.
Speaker 0 00:25:25 If he were to ask you that today, what would you say? Why were you doing that?
Speaker 2 00:25:29 I would say for a sense of control to feel like I had more control over myself.
Speaker 0 00:25:34 How long did your cutting go on for? You said you started when you were 11. How long did that go on?
Speaker 2 00:25:39 It's something I still struggle with. It's been four months since the last time
Speaker 0 00:25:44 I am so proud of you, four months is beautiful, powerful. There's this idea that destructive behaviors within myself, I have this idea that I can always go back to it, but I don't want to, what do I put in between that there has to be something that fills that gap for me, for me, it's some sort of spirituality and stability in that realm of my life. What are you putting in between that in between you and you're cutting? You said you haven't cut for four months. What's in between there. I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:26:22 No, I'd say primarily personally, I just don't like looking at the scars, so I don't want to add more. Another part of it is when I do cut, I get that numb feeling that I got when I was using drugs. It's almost like a focus point for all the pain you're feeling at that, that you don't know where to source it to. It's like you've given it a source. So now you're not confused about why you're hurting. You know, why you're hurting. You can see it,
Speaker 0 00:26:53 That pain that people can see physically on you. Those cuts those scars. Nobody wants to talk about it. Nobody wants to ask why, because they're afraid. I'm afraid to ask someone that when I see someone that's struggling, I know how getting help works. A person has to want help. That's how I've seen in my experience and the people around me that struggle with these things that they're in recovery from. They have to want help for themselves. There's a little piece out of me when I see someone that's struggling. When I see that the physical damage, because I know what's going on. Why don't I talk to that person? Well, first of all, a lot of these people, I don't know. I just see them in passing. I think that my alternative to that is to keep them in my heart. Why don't I say something to them that could change the trajectory of their day. That could change what they're going to do that night. Do you wish that somebody would address your scars and genuinely ask about that?
Speaker 2 00:27:53 I do. I think it's all about the approach because I've had many people approach me in a very insensitive blond way and it makes you feel very exposed, just uncomfortable, but I've also had people who have come to me in a very genuine and concerned and empathetic way. What's up with that. It's going on? What's your story? Those people you remember for ever for a long time,
Speaker 0 00:28:22 Would you say there's a part of you that when you're out in the world, you're just pining and bagging, silently begging for someone to ask
Speaker 2 00:28:30 It's more. So I would rather have people come up to me and ask me,
Speaker 0 00:28:37 Michelle, goddammit, you and your fiance with your fucking phones going like, I'm the only one that's in kinky. Roll here. All of you are all fucked up. I forgot what I was going to say. So the way that people approach you about your cutting, when they see the scars, when they actually approach you and ask you how you're doing, what goes through your head? Does it start with, Oh my God. They know I have to go into defense mode. Blackout. What happens question is how do you wish to be addressed about your cutting? How about your talking to me? How would you like me to approach you? If I were to
Speaker 2 00:29:14 Say in a manner that wouldn't make me immediately want to retreat into myself.
Speaker 0 00:29:20 Okay. Well, what, what would you want to be asked specifically? That would help you let me in
Speaker 2 00:29:24 Probably a little subtle, because if you come on too strong for me, I'm going to retreat into myself. And if you come on, like you don't really care about the subject. It's just going to upset me. But if you came and you said, Hey, I noticed your scars. Would you like to talk about them? Is there something you need to get off your chest? Is it something you're still struggling with? Is there any way I can help feels more genuine? If all, alright, this person actually cares about what I'm going through instead of what the fuck's up with your wrists, which I have been approached by, with that exact same before, on a few occasions, it makes it more welcoming to discuss if you come across cautious. But
Speaker 0 00:30:02 I have never heard anyone say that in my life. I've seen people with scars that I say in my head, that person cuts because I know people that cut. I've been trusted with information from people. It's about you right now about cutting yet. I didn't know how to approach them. The only way that I approached a person in my past at another treatment center and we won't get into that, I was just a sounding board. I just sat there and let her say whatever she wanted to say. That's scary to not want to assert, well, you need to get help. Let me help you. Let's go do this. Come on, come on, hop along. Let's go get, let's go save your life. That's subtlety that exists people that self-harm, isn't that a craving of that human connection. Someone that doesn't judge someone that genuinely cares.
Speaker 2 00:30:54 <inaudible> a lot of the time when you are questioned, it feels more like not necessarily a shaming, an oddity. Oh, what's that you do that
Speaker 0 00:31:03 Extremely taboo. I'm want to shift gears. I want to talk about your suicide attempt. Okay. I want you to talk about your suicide attempt. I don't want it.
Speaker 3 00:31:13 Okay. I say things and just like get caught up on verbiage. It's like, let's talk about your suicidal.
Speaker 0 00:31:20 Gonna fucking say anything. Cause your suicide attack Christ on a Christmas tree. Would you like to discuss your suicide attempt? Is that okay? Yeah. Would that be all right when we'll start there?
Speaker 2 00:31:33 I was 15 in high school.
Speaker 0 00:31:35 What proceeded the attempt.
Speaker 2 00:31:38 Rocky start to the year. I didn't have any friends for the first couple of months, ate my lunch in the bathroom because nobody wanted to be my friend at the time. A few weeks after that, my grandfather had passed away. Things were kind of Rocky at home with my brother, the middle one. He had started to dabble in drugs because of a woman. He was dating at the time and he started to behave more radically things at school. Weren't going well. Things at home had just gotten stable and started to become more unstable because of the changes in the house and relatives doing drugs, all this other stuff. And my stepfather unfortunately was still around. I didn't really see him, but I knew that he knew where we lived. I don't know what happened. I was having a really hard day. Nobody in my house cared.
Speaker 2 00:32:29 I had tried to talk to all of my siblings and my mother and everyone else seemed preoccupied. I walked past, everyone was sitting in my mom's watching TV. I walked past them all and I grabbed two full bottles of prescription ibuprofen, 800 milligrams. And I ate them. So I had about 80 to 90 pills. It took about an hour. At the time I had just finished the last bottle. Things were kind of getting heavy. My body was getting really heavy. I was listening to music on my laptop and cutting at the time, my computer somehow fell on the floor and my brother came in the aggressive one. He had asked me if I had eaten all the pills out of the bottles. I don't recall if I said yes or not, but next thing I know everyone starts freaking out. And my eldest brother began tossing me down the hallway and he was trying to get me to the toilet to throw up. At that time I was getting really sleepy eyes were getting really heavy. I remember my mom called the hospital and she was telling them what was going on. And then we were in the car. We went to the ER, the next morning I woke up on them. The suicide watch for, and I was there for about a week and a half before they let me go home. And my stepdad came to visit me there. So I was fine. It's one time.
Speaker 3 00:33:49 Were you present when all this was happening or was it happening to somebody else when you finished both those bottles, you were cutting. Was that you doing it?
Speaker 2 00:33:58 I was very present. I was dedicated. Even. I recall when I got about five pills and I thought about it, I was like, all right, I can stop right here and I'll be fine. I'll probably have a stomach ache, but I'll be fine. Or I could keep going. And I had made the decision that that's what I wanted to do. That's the goal that I hadn't planned for that night was today.
Speaker 3 00:34:18 What was your internal reaction to people trying to help you physically trying to save your life, trying to get you to throw up, taking you to the hospital. Did you even want to go?
Speaker 2 00:34:28 No, I resisted. I refuse to throw up. What did you say to them? Anything? No, they just asked why. Well, my eldest brother asked why I didn't answer. Why not? At that point, I was hoping it wouldn't really matter. Kind of hoping I was past the point of no return. I woke up the next day. So I wasn't
Speaker 3 00:34:43 For people that seemed so distant and abusive. They saved your life. Yeah. What do you want to say to your family about them helping you stay alive? Does a part of you still wish they hadn't?
Speaker 2 00:35:01 Yeah. Some days, other days I'm thankful that they cared enough. Other days. I think that I wasn't supposed to die. What a coincidence that my brother who never comes into my room came into my room. The minute I polished off the last of the pills,
Speaker 3 00:35:17 One of those things you just can't explain. And I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. You can take it for what it is personally. The only way that I can look at that is what a gift. What a moment, what a turning point. They saved your life yet. They hurt you in so many. So there
Speaker 0 00:35:38 Has to be a reason. In my opinion, there has to be a reason why they helped you that day. When you left the psych ward, was your suicide attempt addressed again ever?
Speaker 2 00:35:50 Yes. Actually the day I got home as the something that I don't think I'll ever forget, my mom sat me down in the living room. She asked me why I did what I did. And I told her it was because I wanted to die. And she goes, well, why didn't you just kill yourself? Then my response was that's what the fuck I was trying to do. So that was the extent
Speaker 0 00:36:15 Of that issue being addressed fast forward to two years ago in change, where you blacked out, came to on the phone with your now fiance, what was that conversation like? Do you remember what
Speaker 2 00:36:28 I remember what he was telling me. He was telling me that he was going to leave his treatment facility to come get me. I know I didn't want him to do that. So I just kept telling him no. And he wanted me to call his mom for her to come and yell at me. I said I would, but I didn't.
Speaker 0 00:36:44 Do you think he saved your life? Absolutely. Which would make him family no matter what happens in my life, regardless of anything that happens, family will always be family. That's a fact what's beautiful is when someone isn't, your blood family becomes your family because of that unconditional love because of that understanding because of that physical, emotional, spiritual presence. When did you finally get help? What happened?
Speaker 2 00:37:14 Cody gave me the information to call someone to set up a, I forget what it's called. Rule 25 rule 25. Yeah. And I called and set up the appointment and I committed to it. And that was how long ago? Two years. A little over two years, two years, 11 days,
Speaker 0 00:37:35 Two years, 10 days, something like that. I'm good with mental math, remembering information such as that, it makes me special. It makes me super smart. Okay. I know Michelle. I am so glad you're here. I'm so proud of you for being four months without cutting. What a gift, what a gift you are to be sitting here, sharing your story. Something that no buddy talks about to dig deep into these vulnerable places. Tears are streaming down your face. It just blows me away. I don't know how to explain it. When someone that doesn't really know me, we know each other, right? We know each other. We say, I love you to each other through our common thread, Cody, but I love you because you've given me a piece of yourself, a whole chunk of yourself. You're not alone. You're in recovery. You are brave. You are.
Speaker 3 00:38:36 And I love you. Thank you. I love your deal. Okay. We're going to take a little break. Okay. And when we come back, we're going to talk about how you got some help because you're still sitting here. We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 00:39:04 Oh, your heart is aching smile. Even though it's braking. When there are clouds in the sky, you'll get by. If you smile through your fear and sorrow smile, and maybe you see the sun shining through, I hit up your face with gladness. Hi. Hey, every tray of sadness, although a T maybe ever. <inaudible> that's the time you must keep on trying smile cry. You find that life is still worthwhile. If you smile.
Speaker 3 00:40:40 Welcome back. You are listening to authentic. This is Nick and I'm here with Michelle, Michelle. Hi. Hi, I'm Michelle. <inaudible> that's it. That's all. You're going to say. I'm here with Nick and Cody.
Speaker 3 00:40:56 That was a good callback. Should be a standup comedian. So many people get help with a particular thing. For me, it was my alcoholism. That was just scratching the surface. That was just the most blatant thing that was happening in my life. Yeah. That dude smells like booze all the time. So I went and got help for that. There was so much more going on than just my alcoholism. What was the start for you? What was addressed? First problem that was addressed was my drug issue. I knew that in order to make the changes I wanted to make mentally, I had get clean.
Speaker 2 00:41:34 I went through about five, maybe six months of treatment, give or take maybe more. First. I went to a high intensity inpatient facility. Then I went down to medium intensity inpatient facility with high intensity inpatient. I'd say that one helped me primarily learn how to deal with myself. Sober.
Speaker 0 00:41:59 What was so hard about being sober
Speaker 2 00:42:01 With emotions and the thoughts feelings that came up that I didn't want to feel or deal with or ignore
Speaker 0 00:42:10 All of the feelings that date all the way back to that three year old that was being abused, had not been addressed.
Speaker 2 00:42:18 I had probably the only person I had ever told about what was going on at home was my biological father and my grandmother, his mother.
Speaker 0 00:42:27 What was helping you at this impatient. Did you talk about your traumas
Speaker 2 00:42:31 At that inpatient? They did have you do a biography. I mainly skimmed over a lot of it. I didn't really get in depth with stuff. I even had feedback afterwards where a couple of other people who were there had told me, you really don't connect with your trauma. You just skim over it. You brush it off, you try and conceal it, like reading a recipe. Yeah. Yeah. Very emotionless and just disconnect.
Speaker 0 00:42:58 At what point did you get in touch with those emotions? At what point did you actually verbalize these things actually feel your feelings?
Speaker 2 00:43:08 I'd say it was probably the last week of the 42 day program. The last week we had a project where we were supposed to write a forgiveness letter, could be to anyone. It could be to ourselves, a relative. I decided to write mine to my mother after having a clear head and being able to sort of start to process things that I had gone through and how my life had played out. At that point, I had realized I had blamed her for majority of it. At that time, I let a lot of it go. I realized when she had me, she was my age. She was 23 and I was her fifth child. Not to mention she was in an abusive relationship with a man who was also addicted to drugs with no other help. Her parents abandoned her. She didn't have any other siblings or relatives to help her out. So she was all on her own. I realized she did the best she could with what she had.
Speaker 0 00:43:59 Have you ever written a forgiveness letter to yourself?
Speaker 2 00:44:02 No. I don't know what I would need to forgive myself for a lot of the things that I've gone through. I don't take fault for, I believe everybody has a piece of responsibility and the things that took place, but I don't think one person is solely at fault for the situations that took place.
Speaker 0 00:44:19 Sounds like life being very lifelike. There's never just one thing. It's this combination, this culmination in this giant cauldron in somebody just stirring the, and there's all those ingredients being thrown in. If I were to forgive them. Cause I don't forgive myself very well. That's a skill that is in front of me, but I choose not to pick it up. If I were to forgive myself, honestly, I'd go back to that little boy that was scared and forgive him for his self hate because he didn't know what was going on. There's something wrong with me. No, there's not. You're just yourself. It's okay. That's what I wish I had heard. That's what I would want to tell myself. That's how I would forgive myself today. It's not your fault. It's nobody's fault. It is. And you're okay. When I think of forgiveness, it's, it's been changed so much over my life. When I think about how I used to view forgiveness, someone is saying, they're sorry to you and you say, okay, yes, I accept your apology. I forgive you. And then I hang on to it. If you were to forgive yourself, write yourself a forgiveness letter, what sort of things would you forgive yourself for? And allow yourself to let go of?
Speaker 2 00:45:31 I'd say the number one thing is I would forgive myself for trying to be emotionless. That was one of the big things that would trigger my stepfather was emotions, creative thoughts, or individual thoughts. I held a lot of myself back because if I let any part of myself out, I would be punished for it. Part of why I hate crying now is because I feel like feelings and emotions are a form of weakness because that was what was instilled in me. If you feel sad, you'll be given a reason to be sad, kind of
Speaker 0 00:46:06 Would you entertain? And this is a sweeping generalization. Do you believe that is unfortunately part of the African American?
Speaker 2 00:46:16 Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like it is a cultural thing where black women especially are mainly raised like men is, we're not supposed to show any form of weakness. We're not supposed to cry. We're supposed to be able to take a punch. We're supposed to be super heroes. We can't break down. You can't have those moments because that's not acceptable, especially in the black community. That is also part of the reason why when I show emotion, I feel like I'm showing weakness because not only did I have that from my stepfather's side, but also from my mother's side, because she was also telling me, you need to stay strong. You need to suck it up. You need to keep moving. You gotta keep pushing. Excuse me. You're excused.
Speaker 0 00:47:04 Who was most helpful when you were in that inpatient? Was it counselors? Was it a therapist? Was it people that you were there with what allowed you to open up and be vulnerable and be honest?
Speaker 2 00:47:18 I'd say the two main people who helped me counselor wise was a woman named Angie and a guy named Cooper. Other than that, there was another patient who was there at the time named Mary, who I still keep in contact with. She called me on my two years at like 10 o'clock at night. It was hilarious, but she was my Birchwood grandmother. Cause I hung out with all the old people and played botchy ball. Those were definitely my three biggest influences. Those were the people who, when I wanted to leave, gave me the strength to stay there, follow through and finish.
Speaker 0 00:47:53 When did you start addressing yourself?
Speaker 2 00:47:55 I didn't start addressing that until about three to four months into my treatment. I was at the medium intensity treatment facility where I had gotten my first one on one counselor slash therapy kind of thing. During that time I was really struggling with my depression. I had told my counselor about it. She made me feel like I had a safe space to go to when I felt like harming myself. So it made me feel more open to discussing what led up to the self harm and why I continue.
Speaker 0 00:48:29 What sort of tools were you exposed to at that time? DBT, which is, I don't recall. Dialectical behavioral therapy. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:48:40 Okay. That one
Speaker 0 00:48:42 You learn with DBT.
Speaker 2 00:48:44 I mainly learned with that is identifying a problem or a situation that I was having and why that specific situation was a problem and steps that I could take in order to cope with that.
Speaker 0 00:48:59 They have worksheets and everything
Speaker 2 00:49:01 They did. It made it very simple
Speaker 0 00:49:04 To anybody it's available to everyone. If you just go on Google and type in DBT skills, anyone can practice them.
Speaker 2 00:49:11 Well, that really helped me with was identifying what I was struggling with. Not so much as working through it yet, but at least identifying one of the main obstacles that I needed to demolish.
Speaker 0 00:49:23 How did you address working through it? It's been identified then the next step logically is to work through it
Speaker 2 00:49:31 That I have just started doing. I've probably, I just recently started seeing a therapist individually. I've been seeing him for probably about four months. He's been helping me work through a lot of stuff because I've, I did identified the issues, but I've never dug deeper into them. I'd say he's a huge part of why I'm comfortable speaking about this topic today because I can see the results.
Speaker 0 00:49:56 What sort of results are you seeing feeling? I feel
Speaker 2 00:50:00 Primarily, I'd say clarity, especially just being clouded and confusion and uncertainty. For years of my life, having the clarity of knowing the things that I went through, the reactions that I had to them, reactions I have to them now are perfectly normal and perfectly acceptable. I am allowed to work through things at my own pace is comforting. It's just a warm feeling. I've been through a couple therapists most of the time. I feel like they don't really care about what I'm talking about. It's just more so paycheck. This is a totally different experience. It's weird. It's just weird.
Speaker 0 00:50:40 No, try, try again. Another therapist. That's really weird. And that's why so many people are turned off by it. Go see one therapist and you're like, fuck this, like this guy, this gal does not care. They're just sitting here writing, writing shit down and like giving me bullshit answers. And I didn't, you try this and you can, you can tell when people care and when people don't.
Speaker 2 00:51:03 And that's how my first therapist was like, she didn't remember what we talked about the previous session half the time. She didn't remember my name
Speaker 0 00:51:11 For so many people. That would be, you know, a disillusionment. I'm never going back to another therapist. Fuck that this is my one experience. And that shit don't work. What made you go back and try another one?
Speaker 2 00:51:22 I knew that I wanted to do therapy because I knew I had a lot of shit that I needed to work through and that I couldn't do it by myself because I didn't know how to. So I decided Cody can vouch for this cause he was getting pretty pissy with me for a little while. Cause it took me so long to find another therapist. After a while I was being very picky. I found a gentleman who the first thought that I had is he looked like my uncle. Okay, send this guy a message to see if he's available. He's an African American male. That's what I was looking for was either an African American male or a female. And when I talked about cultural things, there would be more of a connect. I found him and he immediately got back to me. I met, I sent him an email like 10 30 at night and he immediately got back to me and it was like, well send me your info tomorrow. And we can get started when I get back from vacation. Okay. This guy is, he means business after I'd say like the first three sessions, I was like, all right, this is the person I would like to see for the next few years. If possible,
Speaker 0 00:52:23 The root of the destruction is being addressed. There are other players involved, mainly drugs, namely crystal meth and benzos. Xanax. How do you address your chemical dependency? Do you ever think about using?
Speaker 2 00:52:40 I do, but when I think about using what comes to mind is all the work I put in to get clean and all the shit that I went through there got me to using, to begin with. I think about it. That's not a place I want to go back to, especially starting therapy, having more clarity and just more joy starting to actually want to live a life. That's not the life that I want to live
Speaker 0 00:53:03 Beyond therapy. What's helpful for you to maintain a clean and sober life?
Speaker 2 00:53:09 Definitely my, my partner, the fact that I am in a relationship with someone who is also sober, it's a world's difference. I couldn't imagine living in a house with somebody who uses, it just sounds like a toxic environment someplace. I don't want to be. And the fact that I can come home and know that I'm safe, I'm not going to open up a drawer and find a baggy of something somewhere or open the fridge and there'll be a six pack of beer or something like that just makes me feel safe.
Speaker 0 00:53:37 How do you wish to be supported by your partner?
Speaker 2 00:53:41 He does a pretty good job. Most days when I'm feeling kind of down isolated or just not connect with the world, he kinda gets in my ass and he's like, you've got to get up. You gotta do this. You need to do that. And it kind of gives me a different perspective. Okay. I know I'm feeling my fields right now, but he's right. You know, the world doesn't stop because I want it to,
Speaker 0 00:54:06 Is that how you wish to be supported? You just need a kick in the ass. Yeah, sometimes I do too.
Speaker 2 00:54:12 I do, because if I don't get it, that's why I talked to my mom. Yeah. I'm like, I won't do it. If I don't get that kick in the ass, I won't do it. I will procrastinate until the moon falls out of this guy.
Speaker 0 00:54:23 So a kick in the ass does it, what doesn't help. What makes you want to say, fuck you and run in the other direction and want to destroy what you've done
Speaker 2 00:54:35 On the days where there is obstacles and understanding or there's difficulties showing compassion, especially when I'm going through my sad phases. That's usually when I want to talk and run and I want to go fuck up. Usually meaning self,
Speaker 0 00:54:53 What sort of awareness is there in the African American community regarding self harm? Is it being talked about? No. Does it always go back to this weakness thing? These women were raised by men and they were told to never show emotion, to be tough, to be defensive on guard at all times. Do you think a lot of that just comes back to that?
Speaker 2 00:55:16 Absolutely. I feel that is a form of weakness. That is you showing a form of weakness is the fact that it's almost like when I would talk about it. When I was younger, after I had routinely started self-harming and I would talk to my mother about it, she would basically tell me, don't let anybody see that cover those up. It'd be 90 degrees outside. And she would require that I wear a long sleeve so nobody could see it. And mainly because it's also a thing you don't talk about what's going on at home, outside of your home. That is also a big thing. I think in the African American community, as what goes on at home, stays at home. So if I'm unhappy at home and I'm physically showing it, that's a big no-no because not only are you showing weakness, but you're also letting others know that things at home, aren't going good.
Speaker 0 00:56:03 How can you change that? I'm not talking about as a whole with the African American community. How does that shift, what has to happen in order for this silence? This facade of weakness prevents people from addressing real issues.
Speaker 2 00:56:18 I think number one, and I can't speak for males at, for African American females. Don't shun them for having emotions. Don't discourage them from showing their emotions. We we're all human beings. You raise your men or your sons not to cry and to show toughness, don't raise them that way. Don't raise women that way either embrace your feelings, make sure they know that it's okay to cry when you get hurt or when you're feeling sad or it's okay to ask for a hug or to ask for some reassurance or to tell someone that you're feeling that way. Don't reject them. Don't put them down because that's what I got as a child I'd approach my parents. I feel sad today. I need some love and I would be dismissed or I would be belittled or rejected, or just told that that's not what I was feeling. That fucked me up. And I don't think that's a proper way to go about that. That's not something when I have children, that's not something that will be a factor in their lives.
Speaker 0 00:57:22 Do you think a movement has to happen on a larger scale in the African American community? We hear about black lives matter, especially with the times happening right now with the murder of George Floyd. This is, this is a time of calamity and instability yet unbelievable opportunity to steer it in a direction that breaks that cycle of silence that can break that fear, that thought of weakness because of feelings that aren't tough or everything's good. Everything's fine. Even though it's not fine. How would you influence a movement like that? Do you think that's what has to happen? I mean, this is just purely my instigation.
Speaker 2 00:58:06 I do agree. I think not only do things have to change for the African American race as a whole in the world, but I think inside of their homes too, you gotta knock problems out at the root, if there's problems going on at home and these people can't talk about them outside of the home, then these things get carried on into their adult life. It can come out in many different ways, not all positive, either from my experience, it makes you lash out because you have all of these suppress feelings and emotions and anger. And when you're finally of an adult age, we don't have to listen to your parents. You lash out.
Speaker 0 00:58:44 Can you think of a realistic way to instill that in a household that engages in that, how does change happen? You said it needs to start in the home. Well, how does that information get there? How does that cycle get broken? How do you suggest or encourage people to change the way they parent? How does that happen? I mean, the answer is right in front of you. Yes. In the African American community. A lot of this stuff just isn't talked about because that's the way it is. Well, how does it stop being that's the way it is as when people start up about it
Speaker 2 00:59:22 And wanting change,
Speaker 0 00:59:23 Huh? Just like you're doing tonight in my heart of hearts, this is where change happens. One human talking to another human about what makes them, who they really are beyond race, beyond creed, beyond gender what's in your soul. And how can I share the grace that I receive from the people that actually care? How can I share that? It's interesting to think things can be changed so much on a political or religious level, but on an emotional level. Is that a stalemate? I truly hope that this interview with you is going to make a change. And guess what? I know it is, you can take a drink or something. I'm just, I'm just collecting some heavy shit.
Speaker 2 01:00:06 But that those are good questions.
Speaker 0 01:00:08 Yeah. We've talked about how you've gotten some help. It's some pretty good help. Some much needed help. I've gotten some of that. I still get tons of that. We talked about it on the meta level, the bigger level of people getting help. I want to know how do you help people on an individual basis, regardless of chemical dependency, regardless of these things that we're talking about, life being very lifelike, where they're in recovery from something, everybody is, it's just, what is it? Everybody has their thing. How are you helping people on an individual basis with their,
Speaker 2 01:00:43 I'd say primarily what I try to do every day is give out what I didn't get an open ear and an open heart. And to actually empathize, trying to be able to understand and put myself in the place of what someone else is going through. Give them the best advice that I would want. If I were in that situation. For example, if someone was in a situation like I was in my younger years and then an abusive household, I would give them resources that I didn't have about where you could go. I didn't get mine until after years and years, I had finally found out about shelters for battered women and children. I recommend every person on the face of this earth get a therapist because everybody's got some shit that they worked through.
Speaker 0 01:01:28 Everybody has their thing. Absolutely think you'll ever stop going to therapy.
Speaker 2 01:01:33 No, no, absolutely not. I could see my therapist now until he dies. I will and attend the funeral. I would hope so. Yeah. Like it's to a point now where it's like almost family, it's almost family. When you release the things that you have suppressed in your soul, your entire life to a stranger and they care can't even describe the feeling, validates that you matter. And that's something that I've struggled with my entire life is knowing whether or not I matter now, I don't. I know. I matter
Speaker 0 01:02:03 Because you know, you know that you matter that leaves room for my favorite four letter word, H O P E hope. All right, we're going to take a little break. And when we come back, Oh my goodness. Michelle going to share some
Speaker 3 01:02:20 Hope. You're killing it, girl. We'll be right back. <inaudible> Hey, y'all it's time for authentic and Michelle to talk. Oh,
Speaker 2 01:03:59 Oh. Oh,
Speaker 3 01:04:01 That was pretty good for a smoker. It was really good. Thank you. All right. Let's talk some H O P E hope because you're sitting here, you have a desire to live so many people don't make it back from the experience that you endured taking two bottles of ibuprofen. So many people don't come back from that. Why aren't you, one of those suicide statistics that you hear, Oh, this guy, overdosed, that guy drank himself to death. That girl drank herself to death. That girl had a bad dose of heroin and never woke up. Why aren't you? One of those people,
Speaker 2 01:04:34 I guess my higher power wasn't done with me yet, I had more work to do, because that is a question I have been asking myself since I woke up the next day. Cause I was not expecting to, as I have no idea why I was still here, I was actually pissed that I was still here. Now I know there's a reason. I might not have figured out what that purpose is yet, but there is one
Speaker 3 01:04:57 That's the first time in one hour, 40 minutes and 42 seconds that you have mentioned a higher power. I was wondering when it was going to surface, if it was going to surface at all, we talked about your atheism as a child. What is your spiritual life look like? Now? You spoke of a higher power. What is, I don't know,
Speaker 2 01:05:18 Something bigger than myself. Something bigger than all of us. I can't necessarily say it's just one day they are one being or one entity or whatever you want to call it. It could just be just Adam's everything flowing, how it's supposed to. It could be anything. I know that when I wake up in the morning and I hear the birds and I feel the wind and I can smell the flowers and my kids are laughing and my husband's drinking coffee and leaving stains all over the place that my higher power is, is at work. I can't explain it. When I look at the things I've gone through in the past, and the fact that I am still here and I'm able to laugh and smile and love still. There's definitely somebody looking out for me or something.
Speaker 3 01:06:06 How would you explain a higher power? Just a higher power to your younger self. That was an atheist. I'll be young. Michelle. Look at me. Look at me. Hi. Hi, I'm young Michelle. Hello, Michelle. Okay. That's not how you taught.
Speaker 2 01:06:28 I would say young Michelle, young Michelle, a higher power to me. Now that I'm older, it would be a force greater than myself, greater than the power of humanity. The power of humans. I'd say it's something that has a force. It's what gives you your passions and your, your drive. It's what helps motivate you and push you towards your goals and help you create the life that you want to live and help you have that motivation to live a life. It's what helps you see beauty in the morning. When you look outside your window, that's what I would describe my higher power as. Hmm.
Speaker 3 01:07:12 I like that. God. What do you want to say to Angie Cooper and Mary? The people that helped you get your start.
Speaker 2 01:07:26 First thing that comes to mind, I would thank them for seeing me and not seeing the outcome of my past. Most individuals. I come across tell my story too. Or even just a piece of it. Start to view me differently. Start to view me as fragile or battered. They didn't see me that way. They just saw me as a person who has a lot of weight on my shoulders that needs help lift some of it off
Speaker 3 01:07:57 And little. Did that Michelle, at that point in her life? No, that she was in recovery. Yes. Was that ever a thought? You're like, damn I am in recovery.
Speaker 2 01:08:09 No, no. I never once thought about it. I just, well, I will say the first program was a blur for awhile. It took a minute to kick in what I was actually doing. Cause I had never imagined myself not using drugs. So it was a weird adjustment. And then once my brain started clear up, well I can do things differently. I didn't know that. And I did. I don't have to use drugs. I don't have to hold on to this anger and this resentment, all this unnecessary baggage, I can just let it go.
Speaker 3 01:08:43 How would you define recovery?
Speaker 2 01:08:45 I would say recovery, in my opinion is becoming your true self it's shedding. All the layers of whatever is unnecessary. And then you have recovery
Speaker 3 01:08:57 At this point in your life, implementing a higher power. Living with a man that supports you is sober, supports you in your sobriety, being who you are now, what would you like to say to your stepfather
Speaker 2 01:09:10 That I've won?
Speaker 3 01:09:12 What would you like to say to your mother?
Speaker 2 01:09:14 I would probably remind her that I forgive her. I know she still holds a lot of pain about it. So I think reminding her that I don't hold that anger towards her anymore.
Speaker 3 01:09:31 What do you want to say to the young African American girl? That's being abused,
Speaker 2 01:09:37 That there is help. You don't have to be afraid when you come home that there are people out there that you can call and they will help you. And regardless of what, making that call results in, as long as you're safe and you're not in that situation anymore, you did the right thing because nobody should have to walk into their home and be afraid
Speaker 3 01:10:04 Tonight. You've been breaking so so much stigma. It's pretty baffling. The things that you've addressed, how are you going to break stigma? When you leave here today,
Speaker 2 01:10:18 I'm going to go home and I'm going to cry because I know it's okay to cry now. And then I'm going to eat some ice cream.
Speaker 3 01:10:26 I was thinking, I was going to ask you guys on the way home. If you guys want to eat a pint of Ben and Jerry's in the parking lot, I drove. So that's where we're going
Speaker 2 01:10:37 And possibly take a bath because my kids aren't home.
Speaker 3 01:10:42 Speaking of your children, how would you explain to them? How would you show them to not be afraid of who they are?
Speaker 2 01:10:52 Well, I always tell them don't be insulted when someone calls me weird. Cause there's no such thing as weird. You're just being yourself. You're unique. Everyone has their own individual courts that make them who they are and then something that you should embrace. How do you show them that? I usually let out my quirkiness. I do my silly dance.
Speaker 1 01:11:16 I love you.
Speaker 2 01:11:19 I sometimes you pulled on the couch and giggle about it. You know, farts are so awesome. They can be very funny.
Speaker 3 01:11:27 Can you do any fart noises? Do you have any good ones? That sounds like poop. That's an old man fart. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:11:40 God,
Speaker 2 01:11:42 Just a poofed. But yes, I think the most important part is let your freak freak flag fly. Just let it out.
Speaker 3 01:11:51 If you were to start a revolution in the African American community, if you were to start a revolution, what would your message be?
Speaker 2 01:12:01 First thing that popped into mind as if I had a big banner that announced my kickoff speech, it would probably say the freedom to feel. Cause I think that is a huge problem. The fact that parents will suppress their children's feelings because it's a form of weakness or showing weakness. I think that's a fast track to fuck a kid up. I can speak personally. It is a fast track to fuck it up because then you become uncomfortable with yourself and your emotions. And it's just who you are. It's just, it's natural. I believe personally that that's what has caused a lot of my mental obstacles is the fact that for most of my life I have suppressed my feelings and stuff. Um, and I haven't addressed any of it until recently.
Speaker 3 01:12:59 The beautiful thing is that you've started a revolution here tonight. It's already begun. It's my hope that you carry that out in whatever way, resonates with your true self. You are a strong
Speaker 1 01:13:12 <inaudible> hear me roar. God damn it.
Speaker 3 01:13:19 All right, Michelle, last question. Ready? What do you want your legacy as a human being to be?
Speaker 2 01:13:26 I love if I could put myself in the history books, that's what I would like to be remembered for the person who just had the biggest fucking heart who just loved everybody, all that good jazz. Cause I think that is what everybody needs. I think there are people who could go without compliments and go without party buddies. But I don't think there's a single person in this world who could go without love
Speaker 3 01:13:50 And the freedom to feel we're going to make that better From some bridge. All the bridges, all the bridges. No graffiti though. No,
Speaker 1 01:14:04 Not good. Nice to do that. We can make posters though.
Speaker 3 01:14:09 I have authentic, but off posters, pick one up at your local grocery store or whatever Lyft Uber is carrying them. They're out there. Michelle. Thank you for being yourself tonight. Thank you for opening. All of you to me, the wonderful thing is I'm just the guy that presses record. You're the one that makes all the difference in the lives of people that hear this. I didn't do anything. You did all the work and you continue to do the work. You are an amazing, beautiful courageous woman. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being yourself and for letting me in and for showing everyone that you have the freedom to feel. You don't have to be afraid. You can just be you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Well, Michelle, now's the time when we have a competition now I feel that I have the best sign off line ever. Okay. I'm going to give you an opportunity. Challenge me. Would you like to go first or second?
Speaker 1 01:15:19 One second. Let's see what you got.
Speaker 3 01:15:22 Let me get into the zone. Thank you for listening to authentic tonight where Michelle has most certainly gotten authentic. Be good to yourselves. It's important. What you got
Speaker 1 01:15:37 <inaudible> okay. Um, what do you mean? That's the law? Could you not tell? I fucking dropped like to Okta, my eyes. You did. Um, let's see. Yeah,
Speaker 3 01:15:56 You're a big jerk. Let's see. It was great. A fucking sign off line so I can play music. Well, that's a good sign up line. Um, okay, you're done. I think I'm good.
Speaker 1 01:16:09 Smile.
Speaker 3 01:16:16 You heard it first here, folks. Smile. Thank you so much for listening to authentic. As always, we have to pay credit where credit is due. The first song you heard is the song you always hear to open the show, which is mama, mama, mama, mama, mad madness by muse. And then we get into Michelle's music and then we get into ms. Jazz music. I like that one better. I was good at the first break. You heard change gonna come by Sam cook. Then at the second break you heard interestingly enough, smile by Nat King Cole and to take us away, rise up Andra day, be good to yourselves. It is ever so important.
Speaker 1 01:17:07 You broken down now.
