Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hey you. Yeah, you, if you or someone you know, is struggling with anything mentioned on today's program, please, please, please, please, please, please email
[email protected]. That's a U T H E N I C K. The
[email protected]. I am available 24 seven three 65 to help in any way that I can. I have resources. I have open ears and open heart and tons of hope. I've been freely given all these things and would love to give them to you. Be good to yourselves and each other. Follow me on Twitter, using the handle at authen, Nick and my dog, Marla on Instagram at DJ Marla dot Jean. During today's program, you will hear a mentioned multiple times the individual expressing their thoughts and opinions do not reflect AA or Alanon as a whole. Please enjoy get some
Speaker 1 00:01:08 <inaudible>. <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:01:49 Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to the show. My name is Nicholas Thomas Fitzsimmons Vanden Heuvel but most people just call me Nick and with me as always is my dog Marla.
Speaker 1 00:02:14 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:02:19 All right. That's that's enough. Marla, go back to looking our ease and anyway, welcome to the show. This is author neg, where we get off. Then <inaudible> here on authentic, where we get authentic. We talk about all things recovery. What am I mean by that? All things recovery. Well, what I mean by that is if you are still living and breathing on this earth, you, yes, you are in recovery from something. As for myself, I am in recovery from alcoholism. I am an alcoholic. I am also a drug addict. I also have an eating disorder, bipolar disorder. I'm a compulsive gambler. Really? The list could go on and on and on and on it unlucky for you. Today's show is not about me. It is about two people. First is my guest, Alex, who is here to share her experience, strength and hope. Second is the one person that Alex is going to help by giving her testimony tonight, because if we help one person on today's show that we've done our job. We want you to know that you are not alone. We are going to pick up right where we left off. At the end of episode one, Alex is going to continue her story and share her strength and her ow, as it pertains to her recovery from an eating disorder, the loss of a parent and her chemical dependency. Please enjoy. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. You are listening to authentic
Speaker 2 00:03:55 I'm Nick
Speaker 0 00:03:56 And with me is Alex. She's still here. We didn't scare her away. Really? I think she just came back for the second segment because Marla's here. That's the only reason anybody hangs out with me is because I have a really cute dog. That's not true, Nick. Okay. Nick positive affirmations. You're good enough. You're smart enough and talk on it. People like you. Thanks Nick. Sorry. You had to see that Alex, but that's how I get back in the zone. Speaking of getting back in the zone, let's talk about help. At the end of the last segment we were talking about how on July 5th, 2016, you decided to ask for some help. Now that was pertaining to your alcoholism and your drug addiction. I do however, want to revisit your eating disorder. You disclose to me before we started tonight's program and it was very off the cuff. It almost killed me. And that was pretty much all you said. How did your eating disorder almost killed me?
Speaker 2 00:04:59 It kind of came into play when I was in that time of trying to get sober and then like, I'd go into meetings and I'd go out and then I'd go back in. It was like in my head, like I couldn't drink anymore. And then that's when those thoughts kind of came back to me about me not being, I guess, good enough or pretty enough. I'm not really sure exactly what triggered in my brain or what had happened. I kind of just stopped eating totally completely. Yeah. And I also, because of the stomach surgery that I had before I throw it very easily and things irritate my stomach. So I also experienced bulemia. There was a couple months on end where I didn't eat and I'd just throw up all the time and I, you know, do that to myself.
Speaker 0 00:05:45 So it was a mixture of anorexia nervosa and bulemia nervosa. Yes. The anorexia, you are just completely abstaining from food, just not eating starving yourself in respect. And then with bulemia you were bingeing and purging or were you just, was it in the eating disorder community? We call it, was it a subjective binge or an objective binge? A subjective binge. Of course, as we all know, uh, no, we don't all know. That's why I'm about to fucking explain it. A subjective binge is when our brain is telling us that we just had a binge, even though the amount of food that we consumed is not quote unquote binge worthy or the amount of food that would be considered a binge objective binge is when the amount of food is actually a bitch. What sort of binges were you engaging in both?
Speaker 2 00:06:40 No, I was not like a binger where I could sit and eat a bunch because when you don't eat for a long time, your stomach gets very, very small. And my stomach was already very, very small because that's what that surgery had done to me. What would happen is my body would get to a point where I had to put some sort of nutrition into it, I guess, because I would be very shaky and sweaty and experiencing hypoglycemia, like low blood sugar, just because I hadn't eaten in so long. I remember actually having a discussion with my roommate because I couldn't sleep either because I was so hungry, but my brain had stopped registering hunger as hunger. It just didn't do that anymore. And he'd be like, look, you need to have something that has like fat in it or something like that. Cause you can't function unless you have some sort of food in your body. So I'd make like half a peanut butter sandwich. And then in my head that would be too much. So I'd throw it up right away.
Speaker 0 00:07:30 A subject of binge in that case? Yes. How long would you go without eating? I can go for weeks weeks.
Speaker 2 00:07:36 Yep. I would sip coffee lattes. Cause they had milk and sugar in them.
Speaker 0 00:07:42 And that was, that was enough in your head. That was nourishment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:07:46 Yes, that was, that was nourishment. And um, some fruit gusher sometime
Speaker 0 00:07:50 And too much is half of a peanut butter sandwich. Yes. At what point did that become life threatening?
Speaker 2 00:07:57 I was so sick. You don't like hypoglycemia? My brain kind of stopped working and everything got very fuzzy and I just was ill all the time. I had no energy and I went to the doctor. I think it was like re up my mental health medications or something. She took my blood. I was so severely malnourished that she had to point it out to me. I had no vitamins in my body. I mean, I didn't have anything in my body whatsoever. I was severely, severely anemic. She almost wanted to commit me right there, but I was an adult and I was like, no, I'm fine. Like this is normal. So I kind of kept going on until it took a lot of people to be like specifically. I had one roommate that I lived with and he had helped me through so much. Unfortunately we don't really talk anymore. Cause he's moved. He would point out to me and he'd be like, you know, you're really messed up. Like you need to do something about this. He was from New York. He was very like direct and was helpful for you. That was helpful to me cause I do sometimes need things pointed out cause I am a addict. So everything I do is to the extreme. I ended up calling Melroe and I went inpatient for a while. And that was quite an experience.
Speaker 0 00:09:17 You and I are Melrose brother and sister. We went to the same eating disorder clinic. Yay. What was helpful about Melrose? I was more specifically what was helpful about going to inpatient eating disorder treatment?
Speaker 2 00:09:35 I was at the point where if I wasn't going to eat, I was probably going to die. And I knew from going through drug addiction and alcoholism that it was an issue and I did want to live. So I ended up just kind of like looking into things and I called Melrose and they did an assessment on me and they told me I needed to go inpatient. As soon as I can. Basically the first couple of days was pretty wild because I was at the point where it had been so long since I had eaten. Like I couldn't really eat. So when you're inpatient, it's like you do all these groups and then you have three meals a day plus two snacks. They have to teach you how to eat again, which is shouldn't be difficult. But it was very, very difficult for me. I remember getting like a full meal and just being like the way that it made my body feel was just like so intense. Cause it had been so long since I had eaten, you know, after I eat, the first thing I'd want to do is purge, but you can't do that. So I had a nurse with me and I was not allowed to use the restroom on my own for five or six days until my body kind of like settled down and I earned the privilege of going pee by myself.
Speaker 0 00:10:49 What were your thoughts while you were eating a full meal?
Speaker 2 00:10:55 Wild to me, I was like, I can't do this. Like I physically felt like I could not do it, but if you don't eat, then you have to go to the hospital where they'll put you on like TPN or tube feeding. And I was like, I don't want that.
Speaker 0 00:11:08 So how did you get through those meals?
Speaker 2 00:11:10 I met a couple of people. I was in there and we talked, it was nice because it was like, we were all at a table together and we would eat together. We'd all be struggling. So it was like, we're all going through the same shit right now. So it did help a lot and eventually it started to become easier for me to eat and keep it down.
Speaker 0 00:11:31 Sisters in arms, brothers and sisters in arms. Very similar to these 12 step meetings you were going to. Yes. How long were you in inpatient for, for your eating disorder?
Speaker 2 00:11:44 I was inpatient for about two and a half weeks. And then I went and transitioned into an intensive outpatient.
Speaker 0 00:11:51 After you left inpatient, did you need this outpatient weren't you cured? No, you're never fully cured truth. Be told
Speaker 2 00:12:00 It was nice because they set me up with a nutritionalist. I had a counselor, a therapist who was very wonderful. Um, what else did they have there? I went in there like four or five times a week and I also went to group. So it was, it was good for me. They had an occupational therapist too. Yes, that's what it was occupational therapist and we help each other. Yeah, exactly. That was nice because it was just like, they helped you with all aspects. And I had also talked to them about having, um, a dual-diagnosis of also being chemically dependent. So the therapist that I had worked with both chemical dependency and eating disorder, because guess what they go hand in hand with a lot of people.
Speaker 0 00:12:39 Was your outpatient tailored to that? That dual diagnosis? Yes. So there were other people there that had dual diagnosis, both eating disorder and chemical dependency. Yeah. There's a couple of people in my group. Do you still talk to those people?
Speaker 2 00:12:51 I don't. I follow them on Facebook.
Speaker 0 00:12:53 Hey, that's still in contact.
Speaker 2 00:12:55 Yes. So kind of, I haven't talked to them in a while. So
Speaker 0 00:12:58 After you stopped doing intensive outpatient, what sort of skills did you acquire there in your two and a half weeks in inpatient and then in your outpatient, what sort of skills did you acquire to take out into the world with you so that you didn't go back to the place that you were at?
Speaker 2 00:13:15 Gosh, it was like all this like DVT and all of this other funds stuff, DBT, dialectical, behavioral therapy. And what is it coming up with? Coping skills and working on coping skills. That whole process for me, it was very strange. I had to relearn how to eat and that eating was okay. And I do not have to feel guilty about eating, which is something that I had felt in my whole life. Like they had to teach you how to grocery shop. You know what I mean? And like go grocery shopping together. We did while we were, we went grocery shopping and inpatient,
Speaker 0 00:13:47 Just like being in recovery from chemical dependency. I had to relearn how to live and that's basic basic shit like going grocery shopping and making a list and not going down certain aisles and distress tolerance. I have these urges. I want to do this thing. I have these skills that I've acquired from DBT through these groups that I've gone to in therapy, this all encompassing thing that gives me the skills. I need to be an adult and to cope, to cope with my illness, not to cure, but to cope and to skillfully handle these daily abrasions. Right. What does your eating disorder sound like today? It is a lot quieter and by quieter, what is that sound like?
Speaker 2 00:14:40 I don't, it's so hard to describe, but it's difficult to,
Speaker 0 00:14:45 That's the main reason why I'm asking the question. How does your eating disorder talk to you? Does it talk to you in your own voice? Does it talk to you in somebody else's voice? It's definitely my own voice. Okay. And is it just this self-deprecation like you're too fat. You don't look good in this. What is it?
Speaker 2 00:15:01 Yes. It sounds like that. It also tells me which foods are right. And which foods are wrong, which I'm sure you understand. Cause you have ideas in your head. It's like, you can't eat this, but you can eat this. You can eat a certain amount of that. But not of this. I have not engaged in my eating disorder tendencies probably for six months. I just haven't done any of that.
Speaker 0 00:15:26 That is actually described as symptom use being symptom free. Yes. These symptoms of an eating disorder look like bingeing and purging look like restricting or not eating, not making decisions based on what your eating disorder is telling you, making decisions based on what your body needs. A lot of your brain unfortunately, is trying to kill you. But it's that understanding that they can work together, both brain and body to make wise choices and to be okay with that. These symptom uses personally, I've been symptom free for three days. That's the sneaky thing about eating disorders is that nobody can really tell unless it's, you know, this dramatic weight loss. Again, that takes time. Also for me, my symptom use currently is days of just complete restriction and that is inevitably followed by a binge. And for me that's sweets, that's ice cream. That's my binge food where I'll just pound down like two quarts of ice cream and then just be sick to my stomach and make myself throw up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's okay. It's okay because today's a new day. And today I haven't engaged in any eating disorder symptoms. And that's what this program of recovery that I've learned through handling my eating disorder. And my chemical dependency is telling me that I can make a decision today. I can make a decision right now to do what is best for my body. What is best for my mental health?
Speaker 2 00:17:11 Those are tricky. Cause I feel like, why are they? So I don't know why they're so tricky because you have to eat to live. It's real easy with chemicals. It's
Speaker 0 00:17:22 Complete abstinence. It's real simple. Just don't drink or just don't do drugs. Obviously. It's more difficult than that, but it's black and white just don't drink. But with food you can't just not eat. Yeah. It has to be embracing a lifestyle and that's hard. It's really hard. And it's a lifelong battle.
Speaker 2 00:17:43 I mean, there are still days when I eat too much and I'm like walking to the bathroom to go up and I don't even notice it. And I'm like, Oh wait, no, we're not doing that anymore. Alex, we're done with that. It's hard. The last time my symptom news got very bad. There are a bunch of people at work, started doing KIDO. And so I was like, I'm going to try to be KIDO too. Like I want to be like everyone else. So I started doing ketones mosquito for like two days and then I just stopped eating. And then I started throwing up again. I was like, Whoa, wait, this is not Quito. This is not healthy. I don't know what I'm doing. So then I had to like rein myself back in again.
Speaker 0 00:18:18 Well, and it's because of that work that you've done. These skills that you've acquired this retraining of your brain and body that allowed you to recognize that you were going back into these old habits, these habits, these symptoms that want to kill you and that's, and that's really what it is that it's bare bones. My eating disorder wants me to weigh zero. My eating disorder wants to kill me. I want to tell you that I am so proud of you for being six months. Symptom-free thank you. That's a, it's a big deal. Yeah. Super proud of you. I wish you one more day. Just the day, the day fucking asshole. I just want a year. Give me a year right now because I'm an addict. Let's shift gears. You spoke earlier about your dad on that trip just before you got sober that your dad was also an alcoholic and a drug addict. We never really touched on that. And I would like to discuss what that looked like and how that affected you. What was your dad engaging in
Speaker 2 00:19:27 My dad up until I was 17 was a completely normal drinker. He didn't have any issues whatsoever. Never saw him drunk once in my life. Like he'd crack open a beer with the boys in the garage or whatever the fuck they did. But yeah, he was a normal drinker. He'd never be drunk. My mom was the one that was always drunk and he always took care of everything. But then my dad actually got surgery, the same surgery that I did. And he also became hooked on pain medication very quickly. He turned into a potato, basically. He was not my dad anymore. And he was a doctor shopper. He would go get all of these pain medications. He also had this still blows my mind to this day, but he had a doctor prescribed him Oxycontin for restless leg syndrome. It was very obviously an issue and they weren't, they still prescribing it. That was interesting. But eventually the doctors did catch onto the fact that he was a drug addict. At that point, they would no longer prescribe him his pain medication. So he started to drink and he also took off to the races and he drank until he died.
Speaker 0 00:20:45 How did your dad have that gastric bypass surgery?
Speaker 2 00:20:49 Dad was very large. He was probably over 300 pounds and he had type two diabetes very bad. And I think it was an easy solution for him.
Speaker 0 00:21:00 Do you think he was getting the same messages that you were getting from your mom?
Speaker 2 00:21:06 I think it's possible. I don't remember it being that way, but it could have been something that they talked about impact
Speaker 0 00:21:13 Your dad's drinking skyrocketed after he could no longer use his drug of choice, which was also your drug of choice. Interesting. Not interesting. It's just is, it just is like father, like daughter.
Speaker 2 00:21:28 We had the almost exact same story. Um, but his ended a lot worse than mine did. How did his end things got really messy in my house. He was actually a very high up person at a company in st. Paul. And he ended up being fired for his drug use. So, um, we were actually evicted from my childhood home because he had lost all of his money and you know, all the classic drugs, things that you could do. My, um, mom left him for his best friend. They're married now. Um, so he went through that. He died in 2017, but I had actually, I was trying to get sober at that point. So I had distanced myself a little bit from him because it was very hard to watch. He wasn't just to fall over drunk, but he was one of those guys that would drink an entire case of wine or a one 75.
Speaker 2 00:22:27 He was drunk constantly and you could see it. He started having all of the health issues. It did not take him very long to drink himself to death. He started to go into liver failure. He was yellow. He had a soft gel there, a CS, which is when you drink so much that your body is trying to get you to not drink. And they're almost like these ulcers inside your throat. So he would drink and he would instantly start to vomit up blood. And it's so hard to watch someone you love go through that. And it was really hard for me to watch him do that. Knowing that he, that he could stop. I had stopped. Why couldn't he stop? I guess was one of the narratives in my head, but you can not force anyone to get sober. I do have a little bit of guilt and I am a little bit sad about that.
Speaker 2 00:23:20 I kind of distanced myself from him when he was that sick, but I was with him in the last couple months of his life. When he went into complete liver failure, he had been in and out of the hospital because he'd been so sick. He had to keep getting fluids drained out of his body. He went into encephalopathy, which is when your liver doesn't clean out all the toxins that are in your body and they go to your brain. He would be completely. My sister was actually living with him at the time. So he would end up in the hospital a lot. And the last time he was in the hospital, he was so sick that he was in complete liver failure. And you cannot get a liver transplant unless you're a year clean. And he was not going to live another year. So we had to make the decision as a family to transition him to hospice care. He was on hospice probably two months. And then he passed away.
Speaker 0 00:24:13 What was his reaction to the transfer to hospice care?
Speaker 2 00:24:18 It was strange. He knew he had an issue, but he had given up. So he knew he was going to die. He did not try anymore. He was just done. He gave up at that point. So when he went to hospice for the first month of him being in hospice, he was like, mentally there kinda. And you could talk to him the second month he was on hospice. He wasn't, but he, he knew he it's not that he wanted to die. He was just ready to die at that point. And he was still a young guy. So, I mean, it was just, that was very difficult thing to come to grips with because it was so fast for us.
Speaker 0 00:25:02 How old was he when he died? He was 56. And when did he start drinking? Seriously? Ah, 52, four years. Four years. It took him four years to drink himself to death. The amount of time that you've been sober now. Yep. In four years he was dead. Yep. Cunning, baffling. Powerful. What would you like to say to your dad right now? I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:25:24 I have conversations with him because he was up until his alcoholism. He was a very wonderful dad and he was there for me and I loved him very much. And we had a special bond over like music and whatnot. So I actually have conversations with him a little bit like a crazy person, but I'm just like, you know, dad, if you could see this right now, he's been dead for almost three years. And it's still, it's not that I haven't grasped it. It's just so hard because even now when I have like car problems, I pick up the phone to like call him and I can't, you know what I mean? And then it sinks in, again that he's dead. It's not that it's not fair. I don't know how to put into words. What it's like to lose someone so fast to something, something that he could have stopped.
Speaker 2 00:26:10 Do you know what I mean? And I think that the hardest thing for my family, or at least my brother and sister get is that he chose alcohol over them. I understand why he chose drinking over us. There was multiple occasions where he could have gotten help, but he chose not to. I mean, we had interventions for him. I mean, I maybe went to one, but it's like, I knew that unless he wanted to get sober for himself, there was no way that he was going to get sober. He just never did. So why is
Speaker 0 00:26:44 It, do you think that you got sober, but he couldn't?
Speaker 2 00:26:47 I don't know. I don't think there's a real reason that I'm hearing. He's not, it's cunning, baffling and powerful. There's no specific reason why I'm sober. I chose life and he didn't sometimes I think about if there was something I could have done. I know that there's not anything that I could have done. Sometimes I just, Oh, I just wish I could have been like, come into the program with me. Do you know what I mean? Like I wish I could have gotten him to get sober, but I can't do that. And I know that there's nothing I could have done. It's hard for me being a sober alcoholic to know that it is possible to recover, but he did not.
Speaker 0 00:27:29 And that's the sad truth about addiction. Some people make it and some people don't and a lot of people don't. Yeah. A lot of people don't and that's part of why I'm doing this show. I want one person to get it. Just one, because that's one less statistic. I'm glad you're here. Thanks. I'm so happy that you chose life. Your mom is still a practicing alcoholic. Yes. What is your relationship with your mom?
Speaker 2 00:28:00 When my father first passed away, there was some money issues surrounding that. So, um, my mom wanted some money from us kids and I could not give it to her. I did not feel that she, it wasn't that she didn't deserve it. It was that this was money that my father had left to his children. And you left him and you decided to be with his best friend. I feel like that money should go to my student loans and what my father would have actually wanted. So I told her no, and she decided not to talk to me for a year and a half, two years. I would have loved to have my mom while I was going through that. But I did not. I had my brother, which was nice. Um, I had my two sober moms, you know them. Um, I went to all of their holidays and they held me up when I had absolutely no family. That was great. My relationship with my mom now is very, it's not distant, but I have boundaries. I know she loves me and she does try her best. So I'll go over there. I'll see her twice a month maybe. And I'll go over there and I'll say, hi, and I don't Harbor any resentments towards her anymore. That's all stuff that I've forgiven and gotten over. It's not the typical mother daughter relationship that I would like to have.
Speaker 0 00:29:30 What sort of relationship would you like to have?
Speaker 2 00:29:33 I think everybody has an idea, you know, in their head. And it's your idea. I want to have a mom that I can all the time and talk to. And I want a mom that will be there for me and build me up and be my best friend. Like that's my idea in my head of like what a mom should be, but my mom has never been that and she never will be. And that is just something that I have to accept. So I just got new moms and they're there for me.
Speaker 0 00:30:01 Do you think your mom will ever get sober?
Speaker 2 00:30:03 No. I've pointed out to her before and she watched my dad die. She was there while my dad died, but to her, it's not an issue. She also has multiple sclerosis. And so she's on a bunch of medications. She gets drunk very easily and she does get drunk every single night, but I don't think she'll ever be able to drink enough to get to the point where my dad was, where she will die. And she has had consequences. She got a DWI last year, the year before. I don't remember, but to her, it's just not an issue in my family. Alcoholism. Isn't something that registers, unless it kills you, I guess. So
Speaker 0 00:30:41 As a sober person, what are you doing to further and nourish that sobriety that you hold? So dear
Speaker 2 00:30:49 Pre all of this stuff going on, I would go to two or three meetings a week and I call my sponsor every single day. And I have a lot of really good sober friends that I talk to on a regular basis. And I continually work the 12 steps.
Speaker 0 00:31:07 What were you getting at these meetings? These two or three meetings you would go to a week? What were you getting from those?
Speaker 2 00:31:13 Honestly, I was getting a sense of purpose for the first time in my entire life. I felt like I belonged somewhere, which sounds a little wild, but these people accepted me for who I was and they always accepted me no matter what I had done, especially a very specific group on Friday nights, kind of gave me a little bit of a family I needed when I didn't have one,
Speaker 0 00:31:33 Some good old friends on Friday night. Gotta love it. What is the sponsor and how does a sponsor help you stay sober?
Speaker 2 00:31:43 A sponsor is a person that has already worked the 12 steps and then takes you through the 12 steps. I have a wonderful, amazing sponsor. She lives actually like five blocks away from me, but yeah, she took me through the steps and she really, I would call her almost every single day, if not twice a day and she'd answer. And she would talk me through everything. And I remember I picked her because I went to this meeting on Tuesday nights. And at the same time that my dad was getting sick and dying. So it was hers. So we connected on that level and her dad actually passed away six or seven months after my dad passed away. So we were able to talk about that too. So that was nice. And she really helped me find my spirituality through. She's incredibly wonderful. She teaches yoga. She's like a yoga teacher. She meditates and she has helped me so much through finding my and kind of figuring it out what it is.
Speaker 0 00:32:41 Could you try to explain? It's so difficult to explain spirituality, but could you describe it? Could you describe your spirituality first? Why is your spirituality so important? And second, what does it look like?
Speaker 2 00:32:57 Well, for me, my spirituality is, have to believe in a higher power and it can't be yourself.
Speaker 0 00:33:03 And this is pertaining to the 12 step program. Yes,
Speaker 2 00:33:07 My spirituality was very difficult for me. It was a weird journey. I was raised Lutheran. I was actually a youth pastor for a while. I was high. Well, I did it, but I was a youth pastor with all the stuff that had happened with my family, with my dad. I became very angry at God. I was very angry, but I did need to put my faith into something bigger than me. And it was, it's a weird journey. It's still always evolving. So I was at a meeting and I heard a woman described her higher power as grace. And I liked that because one, it wasn't a man. It just sounded right for some reason. And that clicked with me. For me. My spirituality is more love and nature and just all of the good things in the world.
Speaker 0 00:33:54 And then what does the spirituality do for you?
Speaker 2 00:33:57 I pray to it to be sober. I, you know, it's like I was told to find a higher power. I didn't understand why, but now it's there. And I do understand why it's this spirituality is such a strange concept. I do a lot of like meditation. I've been bad at it the past couple of months, but there's been a lot of stuff going on. It helped me to quiet my brain in a way that alcohol and drugs had before my sponsor does this strange yoga called Kundalini yoga. She was like, you need to come. And I was like, no. And she's like, you need to go home. And I was like, okay, I'll go. So I started going every single week with her, if not twice a week with her, it was amazing. Yeah. Now I'm realizing I really need to get back into spirituality mode. So thank you. What do you hope that works? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:34:48 Speaking of people, helping people, do you sponsor any women currently? I do not. Have you sponsored women and what does that provide for you? Okay.
Speaker 2 00:34:57 It keeps me on my toes and it helps me just as much as it helps them. It's so hard to explain that, but I get a, redo the steps with someone else and knowing that I'm helping someone, what I was given to me was given so freely that I want to give it to someone else.
Speaker 0 00:35:12 And that's the basis of your 12 step program? Yeah. You can't keep it unless you give it away. And it's this paradox that pissed me off so much. When I first came to these 12 step programs. It is so true though, is that I can't hang onto it unless I give it to somebody else. Cause it reteaches me. That means that I have to remain teachable. Fuck.
Speaker 2 00:35:35 I am always teachable. I can learn anything new at any time.
Speaker 0 00:35:39 And it's this practice, right? There's no achievement. There's no trophy. There's no done. There's no graduation. There's just practice there's today. There's this moment. There's this interview and that's all.
Speaker 2 00:35:54 And I know that I have four years sober, but I also know that at any, I could wake up tomorrow and start drinking time. Doesn't matter. Everyone's what is it? The same distance from the ditch, whatever they say. And so I have to continually practice my sobriety and I still have to go to meetings or I will start drinking again.
Speaker 0 00:36:13 How do you wish to be supported as a sober woman?
Speaker 2 00:36:16 No.
Speaker 0 00:36:19 What do you look for in relationships in relationships, romantic, platonic? What qualities are you looking for in other people to support you, to lift you up to reciprocate what you want to give?
Speaker 2 00:36:34 We just look for people that are genuine. And I look for people that are positive and I do have like normie friends and stuff, but normally friends, people who do drink aren't in the program,
Speaker 0 00:36:45 People who don't drink alcoholically and I would like to say that the only, the only person that can diagnose you an alcoholic or an addict is you. Yes, no doctor, no therapist, no mom, no dad, no friend, no sister, no brother. No one can diagnose you an alcoholic or an addict, but you, I hate the word normie.
Speaker 2 00:37:12 I'm sorry.
Speaker 0 00:37:15 It makes me cringe when people say that, um, because it sounds like there's like these eight, this alien race and it kind of is it's like, I don't understand you. How do you have two beers or how do you have a beer and a mixed drink and then stop or not even finish your mixed drink?
Speaker 2 00:37:34 It baffles me every single time.
Speaker 0 00:37:37 I don't understand that it's my job in the next 24 hours to figure out a new name for normy, because it just makes me
Speaker 2 00:37:46 A normal drinker, an average person, person, someone who does not drink everything. They see someone who can just drink a white claw and then leave.
Speaker 0 00:38:00 How would you help your mom? If you could,
Speaker 2 00:38:03 If she asks me for help, I would start taking her to meetings.
Speaker 0 00:38:07 What would you show her? What sort of skills would you show her?
Speaker 2 00:38:12 The skills that I've learned through the program that I'm in is just to be a very honest giving person. You know, I think my mom could use that. I don't know if I would be able to teach her that, Oh God, it's so hard to describe. Cause I have such a weird relationship with my mother. I asked the question. I mean, I would love to take her to meetings. I would love for her to find a sponsor. I would love for her to, I feel like most people in the world could work the 12 steps and benefit from it. I would love her to take an honest and throw inventory of herself. I would hold her hand if she decided to be sober. I can't even imagine. I feel like she would honestly be a better person, but like, that's not up to me. I don't know.
Speaker 0 00:38:58 What do you want to say to her right now?
Speaker 2 00:39:00 Say to my mom. Yeah, see, currently we're not talking, so I don't know me right now. I just want to be like, fuck you. But I know that that's not correct. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:39:11 We'll start with fuck you. And then what comes after? Fuck you. I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:39:16 My relationship with my mom is so difficult. It's so hard for me to figure out what to say to her. I've had to come to this place where I have had to push her pretty far out of my life, but still enough in reach that she's kind of my mom, it's this very strange dichotomy of things that goes into it. Honestly, sometimes I just want to smack my mom and be, be a mom. If there's anything I could say to her is just like, I wish you could be my mom. We're currently not talking because of something that happened. I was with one of my sober moms this weekend because I was upset with my mother and I was talking to her and I was talking about the idea in my head that I have of what a mother should be constantly having to come to the realization that she is never going to be that for me. And that hurts. Sometimes that was hurting me this weekend specifically. I just have to learn to get over the idea that I will never have the ideal mother, I guess. So I don't know. That's something that's still pretty fresh and I'm just not a hundred percent sure what to do
Speaker 0 00:40:20 Within the word. Ideal is the word idea. And an idea is just a thought and a thought is just a projection of what normal is, what should be. Instead of looking at that idea, I need to come back to what is and gratitude is what grounds me. This cookie cutter life is not real. I'm sorry. It just isn't real for anyone. It's not real for anyone. The beautiful thing about finding recovery from whatever it is that you are in recovery from is that it starts with one person helping another person. We cannot do this alone. Life cannot be lived alone, sobriety, clean time. Symptom-free from eating disorder. Can't be done alone. We're going to take a little break. And when we come back, Alex and I are going to talk about my favorite four letter word. No, it's not. Fuck. It's hot.
Speaker 1 00:41:23 <inaudible> <inaudible> <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:43:50 Welcome back. <inaudible> welcome back. We have cracked our knuckles. We have cracked our neck. We have done a little stretch and we're back. We're back for some hope. Alex, four years of sobriety is amazing. Four years of sobriety is a miracle being in recovery from an eating disorder symptom free for six months. It's beautiful. I am so proud of you. Yeah. Let's touch hearts. I'm going to feel my heart. Go ahead and feel your heart, heart, heart feeling right. Thank you. You're welcome. So many people go down the road of addiction and don't come out the other side in sobriety, your father being one of them. Why aren't you one of those statistics?
Speaker 2 00:44:43 I don't know. It still baffles my mind that I am sitting here and I am alive and it's just wild to me. The only thing that it's just a miracle at this point, I grapple with the fact that there are so many times I could have not been here, but I am here. I don't know why there are people that don't make it. I just know that I chose to live and I continue with the program and I take it one day at a time. And that's the only thing that I can do at this
Speaker 0 00:45:12 Choosing to live. What does that look like for you today? Choosing to live?
Speaker 2 00:45:17 I just choose to be the happiest me that I can be. I choose to not drink. I choose to not engage in my eating disorder. I choose to wake up and be sober and to live the life that I have somehow been able to build for myself. Still baffles me.
Speaker 0 00:45:35 What would you like to say to a young girl whose mother is telling her that she's too fat or that she doesn't look pretty enough or that she needs to be a size smaller or that she needs to wear makeup.
Speaker 2 00:45:49 They can go fuck themselves. And you're beautiful for who you are. Just be you.
Speaker 0 00:45:54 What do you want to say to the man that can stop in time, but doesn't want to stop. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:46:01 There is hope you can stop drinking. I can do it. You can probably,
Speaker 0 00:46:05 When you do it, what does hope feel like to you?
Speaker 2 00:46:09 So refreshing hope is knowing that there is a tomorrow, even when you don't think there will be hope is just goodness.
Speaker 0 00:46:17 What do you want to say to a person that has tasted the sweetness of sobriety and has relapsed just come back. Why?
Speaker 2 00:46:26 Because you can do this. No, one's going to judge you.
Speaker 0 00:46:28 Well, I just got fucked up. Obviously people are going to be disappointed in me. They are going to be like, well, he's a lost cause fuck them. No, no, one's a lost cause no, one's a lost cause.
Speaker 2 00:46:40 Keep coming back. As long as you want to be sober,
Speaker 0 00:46:43 How do you continue to support your emotional health? Do you continue to see any sort of therapist professional help of that nature?
Speaker 2 00:46:53 And we do not. I should be. I
Speaker 0 00:46:57 Don't should on yourself. I want,
Speaker 2 00:47:00 I want to be seeing a therapist right now to deal with everything that's going on. I've always been kind of a person that doesn't share through sobriety. I have learned to just be an open book and now I talk to people and that's huge for my mental health. If I'm having a shitty day, I will tell someone that I'm having a shitty day and I will try to do something about it.
Speaker 0 00:47:22 How do you explain your addiction to someone that is not an addict? What is that like? Gosh, that's so hard. That's what she said.
Speaker 2 00:47:34 <inaudible> It's just, it's so hard to explain addiction to someone who's never been addicted to anything. It is something that I needed. It is something that I needed to live and to breathe. And I don't think anyone can understand that until you're in that mindset.
Speaker 0 00:47:55 How would you explain the mindset?
Speaker 2 00:47:56 It's like, how do you explain addiction? How do you explain something that
Speaker 0 00:48:00 Your eyes just for a minute feel what addiction was, what addiction is?
Speaker 2 00:48:07 It's kind of like a monster. It's like a monster that completely took control of me and everything that I did and everything that I was with, everything that I've done, the monster is like a lot smaller and in the back of my head now, and I still work on it every day, but it's still there. Addiction is just, Oh, it's so hard to explain addiction. It just is what it is. It just takes control of you. And it is
Speaker 0 00:48:31 You. If you could just take a pill or someone could wave a magic wand in front of, you could get some sort of hypnosis that would cure you of your addict, of your alcoholic, of your eating disordered living. If somebody could just wave a wand and cure you of it all, would you do it?
Speaker 2 00:48:52 No, I would not because everything that I have been through and everything that I have done has turned me into the person that I am today.
Speaker 0 00:48:59 What kind of person are you today?
Speaker 2 00:49:02 I am a person that actually goes out and tries to help people. I am a, I think I'm a good personnel. I'm a much more genuine person overall
Speaker 0 00:49:11 Maintain your positivity as a sober person. More importantly, how do you maintain positivity in your workplace with the current pandemic?
Speaker 2 00:49:22 So the past few months has been very, very difficult. I know it's been difficult for a lot of healthcare workers and it is something that I have been struggling with. A lot things are starting to get better, a little bit going into this pandemic. Currently there was one or two months there where I did not know if I was going to come out on the other side. And I did not know if I was going to come out with my other coworkers who I love on the other side. It was very scary. One of my main coping skills is to go to meetings and I love meetings. So I was going through this COVID situation. I was going through all of this at work and I didn't have my main coping skill, which was very difficult. I was very depressed for probably about a month or two.
Speaker 2 00:50:09 And I'm sure that there are other healthcare workers out there that experience the same exact thing that I did too, because it was scary. It still is very scary. We don't know what this thing is. I am part of a program that teaches me that I can only take things one day at a time. And I'm used to fighting invisible monsters constantly. I feel like going into this as an alcoholic and an addict has really helped me. Covert is scary and I still, I deal with it every single day. The only thing I can do is know that I'm okay here right now. I can only hope that eventually this will slow down and eventually things will get better. And eventually I'll be able to go to a meeting.
Speaker 0 00:50:49 These 12 step meetings that you go to currently most are not meeting in person. What is it about meeting in person versus the other avenues that have been explored such as zoom? What is it about live meetings with other human beings that is just so much different than seeing a face on a computer hugs hug.
Speaker 2 00:51:17 I miss hugs so much just like hugs and shaking hands and being able to see someone's body language, not having 12 old people not know how to press mute and
Speaker 3 00:51:28 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:51:30 So yeah,
Speaker 3 00:51:34 Much
Speaker 2 00:51:39 There was a meeting in which somebody decided it would be a good idea to vacuum and did not mute it. It's just funny. It's hard. I w to be in the same room with other people, you can feel it, you know, it's just, you can feel the other people's energy and you can feel their feelings when you're on a zoom meeting. It's just not the same. And I do zoom meetings, not enough zoom meetings. I need to get over that. It's just, it's so hard to just not go to that physical place. For example, the Friday night meeting was great because on Friday nights is a night that I would go and party. And instead I went to my Friday group and I was with my Friday friends and then we would go out to eat afterward and that gave me a new Friday routine. And now it's like, you're sitting with yourself at home and it's very hard as an alcoholic and an addict to sit with yourself sometimes
Speaker 0 00:52:38 A bit easier as one in recovery.
Speaker 2 00:52:41 Yes, much easier. It was a lot to go through. I am a single woman and I just live with my dog. There was a point where I chose to not see anyone except for the people that I work with. And God bless the people that I work with. And that was the only time I ever saw people or ever got to be around people.
Speaker 0 00:53:01 I would like to take that as an opportunity to say, thank you from the bottom of my heart to all EMT is out there to say thank you to you, Alex. Thank you for doing what you do. Thank you to all the first responders for being that source of strength and beauty fearlessness. It's just my job. That is, self-deprecating
Speaker 4 00:53:28 Saying, Oh, it's just my job. I'm uncomfortable. Don't do it. I can't accept them. They're gross. Look. Sorry.
Speaker 0 00:53:42 Thank you. You are welcome. Now. Say it with us.
Speaker 4 00:53:48 You're welcome,
Speaker 0 00:53:49 Alex. Thank you. I'll take it.
Speaker 4 00:53:57 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:53:58 What do you want to say to your sober moms?
Speaker 2 00:54:01 Oh my God. Thank you for everything. Thank you for bringing me to all of your holidays when I had no one. Thank you for answering the phone. When I called thank you for coming in and being my mom. When I thought I was never going to have another mom again,
Speaker 0 00:54:16 Gratitude is a main pillar for people in sobriety. How do you express your gratitude on a daily basis?
Speaker 2 00:54:26 Just so wildly grateful for everything and just like, it's so insane where I am today, compared to where I was, you know, six years ago where I was four years ago. Honestly, I just wake up and I am just like grateful to be alive. I wake up, I go to work. I get in an ambulance. Me, I drive an ambulance. I don't know who the fuck and everyone's, but I do.
Speaker 4 00:54:52 No, you drove the ambulance. I drive in it.
Speaker 2 00:54:56 We'll sit in the back, but that is so wild to me. I don't know. I'm just so grateful for everything. I never thought I would have any of these opportunities, but I do.
Speaker 0 00:55:05 Why do you have these opportunities? Because I'm sober and why are you sober? Because of the 12 step meetings that I go to. And why did you go to the 12 step meetings?
Speaker 2 00:55:14 Because I wanted to stay alive. And why do you want to stay alive at that point? I did not know. I wanted to see alive because I feel like I have something to give to this.
Speaker 0 00:55:25 Well, you most certainly have given something to this world during this interview tonight. So thank you, Alex. Alex, what do you want your legacy as a human being to be
Speaker 2 00:55:37 Just want to be known as someone that was there for people. That's really it. I just want to help people.
Speaker 0 00:55:42 I love the simple answers that I get while doing these interviews in one sentence, I just want to help people. That's all that needs to be said because it comes back to this idea that you are not alone. We can do this. We can stay sober. We can stay clean. We can be symptom free from our eating disorder. You have to want help. And the good news is, is that you can't do it alone. Alex, thank you so much for sharing your experience, strength and hope with me and with all the millions of people that are going to listen,
Speaker 4 00:56:19 Hopefully fingers crossed. And that's why
Speaker 0 00:56:24 I do this. I do this because this is my purpose. This is what I have to do. This is what I have to do to stay sober. This is what I have to do to stay clean. This is what I have to do to hopefully not use eating disorder symptoms tonight. And because of your vulnerability, your honesty, your courageousness, I want to not use eating disorder symptoms tonight. So thank you.
Speaker 2 00:56:48 You're welcome. You know, you can always talk to me if you want to, that phone is really heavy. Just pick it up and call me. I'm usually awake. I'll put you on speed dial. Okay. Maybe not that I won't always answer, but I will always call that call nine one one then depending on the area you're in,
Speaker 0 00:57:08 I just want to ride in your ambulance. I just want to hit the siren one time. No,
Speaker 2 00:57:13 Maybe. Okay. I mean, you do live in Northeast so I could always swing by sometime, but
Speaker 0 00:57:18 Yeah, I'm looking forward to it once again, Alex, thank you so much for being on the program. You are a beautiful soul and a beautiful woman.
Speaker 2 00:57:27 Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 0 00:57:29 Very welcome, Alex, would you like to try your hand at a sign offline? I know I don't have one. I'll give you a few seconds to think about it. What, what would you want your sign off line to be? If you were me, if you were doing this show,
Speaker 2 00:57:49 I have no idea. I'm not creative like that.
Speaker 0 00:57:51 I just stole mine from my grandfather
Speaker 2 00:57:54 So much easier. Sign offline,
Speaker 0 00:57:56 Be good to yourselves. It's important. He always, he always used to say, be good to yourselves. I added it's important. Smoker's cough gets in the way of be good to yourselves. It's important. Okay. What's yours stay beautiful. I like that one. You have to like see the look on her face. Stay beautiful as always, please reach out. If you are having trouble with anything mentioned on today's program, you are not alone. All you have to do is ask for help. Be good to yourselves. It's important. Eh, always here on authentic and keeping authentic. We have to pay credit where credit is due. The musical stylings you heard on two days pro grant to open the show. You always hear mama, mama, mama, mama, mad madness by muse. And then we got into Alex's picks at the first break. You heard hallucinogenics by Matt Mason. And to take us off into the night sky, you are going to hear medicine by daughter specifically, this remedy remix. Remember be good to yourselves. It is ever so important.
Speaker 1 00:59:55 <inaudible>.
