Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hey you. Yeah, you, if you or someone you know, is struggling with anything mentioned on today's program, please, please, please, please, please, please email
[email protected]. That's a U T H E N I C K. The
[email protected]. I am available 24 seven three 65 to help in any way that I can. I have resources. I have open ears and open heart and tons of hope. I've been freely given all these things and would love to give them to you. Be good to yourselves and each other. Follow me on Twitter, using the handle at authen, Nick and my dog, Marla on Instagram at DJ Marla dot Jean. During today's program, you will hear a mentioned multiple times, the individual expressing their thoughts and opinions. Do not reflect AA as a whole. Please enjoy
Speaker 1 00:01:03 <inaudible>. I can't get men started.
Speaker 0 00:01:48 So to right where we left off with Jim and part one. Now it's time for him to share his strength and his
Speaker 1 00:01:59 <inaudible>. I'm trying to
Speaker 0 00:02:16 My best Jim deep baritone voice from brochures and God, you got, you got a voice for radio, baby. I know I do. And you got a face for, I have a face for radio. No, he's a handsome devil ladies and gentlemen. Let's just say that I'm angling for next position here. So yeah. Well I'll fight you for it. Okay. My dog is going to rip your throat out. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Good talk. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'll see you in the parking lot. Okay, Jim, at the end of the experience portion, you were talking about your wife and the conversation you guys had about going to Hazelton. What is, Hazeldon a treatment center, inpatient and outpatient
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Treatment center generally categorized as one of the finer recovery centers in the world. It's just up the road from me. So it made perfect sense to go there. And I had resisted inpatient before, but, uh, this was the time to dig in and do it. And I was scared, scared shitless about it. And I knew that I had to do it
Speaker 0 00:03:18 No longer. Half-assing it. And you decided that, okay, I'm going to dive all the way in. I'm going to stop resisting. I'm going to stop fighting everything in everyone. I'm going to go to Hazeldon and I'm going to give it my best shot, even though I'm fucking scared out of my mind, what was that treatment like? I want to know specifics. What was Hazeldon inpatient or outpatient giving you, what were you receiving from that?
Speaker 2 00:03:41 I operate in threes and I'm chided in the recovery community, my recovery community for that it's the gym room recovery Republic. The first is I need to get a better handle on the underpinnings of the alcoholism so that I can best attack it. And I need to understand the ins and outs of it. What exactly are the steps and in a lot deeper measure and also any kind of treatment that they can provide up there. I didn't quite know exactly what that meant, but I knew that Hazeldon did it and they did it pretty successfully with a lot of people. So that was the first and then being in a cohort for 30 days without alcohol to focus just on that. That's what I was looking for out of Hazelden. The second thing that happened was is I soon came to the realization. Okay, well eventually I'm going to leave here.
Speaker 2 00:04:31 Eventually I've got to live. I can't just stay in here. The whole town was the food actually wasn't that bad. I was already after a week or two went and I remember I'd had a foundation, so I didn't come in right off the street. That helped me personally. Every journey is your own. It's nobody else's because they did have a, you know, I'd read some of the book, the big book, a book. And I had worked through some steps with my sponsor half-assed and I had gone to meetings. I didn't fully appreciate what all that meant, but a weekend. And I started working on what is my program going to be when I leave here? That's the second piece was, okay, what are the steps? How do I work on, how do I make maximum use out of my sponsor? How do I approach meetings, et cetera. So then the third piece, which I now refer to has page my page 89 mantra that's page 89 in the big book, which says I'm paraphrasing. I don't have it in front of me. Practical necessity tells us that nothing shall ensure immunity from going back to drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. That is absolutely critical. The connection you have with alcoholics. So I started building phone numbers and lists. I never left a meeting, went on a phone number and I still don't. Why
Speaker 0 00:05:45 Is that so important to you,
Speaker 2 00:05:47 Dealing with folks who are similarly situated, who can understand your problem, you can understand their problem knowing you're not alone. And then all of that reinforces all of the tools that are in the program, because we all talk about the same stuff. So when people talk about it, it's like going to a class and having a group class every time. And it's for free. I mean, it's, it's like a duh, like you're kidding me. You can go to this free deal. Anytime you want any place in the world, you can go to a meeting, you can call up a fellow alcoholic and have an hour conversation. It is like an unbelievable resource that you have. And something funny happens along the way to the play. These people are fun and they're interesting and they're sober. It's so enjoyable to have that. But page 89 tells you, you intensively work with other alcoholics and by intensively work, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 00:06:38 I mean, is it absolutely. You've got to go save people and go pull them out of the gutter and take them intensive work can be texts every day. It can be phone calls every day. It can be leading meetings. It can be just going to meetings and just sitting quietly because your presence there allows the meeting to take place. Because if you didn't go with a four or five, six, 10, 12, others, there wouldn't be a meeting, right? That's the deal. That is the gig, my program. And I followed it ever since I left Hazelton every day I wake up and in the morning, it's usually first thing in the morning, I reached out to at least three people in recovery and I've got like 350, uh, eight numbers in my phone. You think about that 350 numbers. Some of those calls are real top of mind because maybe I saw somebody the day before and I want to follow up on how they're dealing with something in their life.
Speaker 2 00:07:25 It's not that they're falling down drunk and in trouble, but I'm reaching out to them and talking to them. Three people text my sponsor once a day. I do that every day and I do my prayers and my meditation. Every day, I go to three plus meetings. Every week I go to four now, maybe five. And the reason I go to four or five is because I've hooked up with some of these meetings. And I get to know some of these people, I enjoy going to meetings. This goes back to my first comment, Nick, it's free. It's one of the best resources in the history of the world for God's sakes. And I can't believe bill w gave us this deal and I didn't take advantage of it. So I go back to those three words. Well, it's never too late. I guess that's four words. It's never too late. It's sloppy to be a better person. It's allowed me to be a better person. And I'm keeping sober too, which is a pretty important thing. But it's allowed me to be a better person.
Speaker 3 00:08:14 You talked about texting your sponsor every day and a sponsor is real briefly. In your words, what's the spot.
Speaker 2 00:08:19 Someone who has experienced in the program for four or five years, perhaps could be some, it could be less though. It could be less. Cause I sponsor folks now and I talk about the quality of my recovery. I was ready when someone came to me and said, I'd like you to be my sponsor. I said, seems like I'm not that far along. And I've gotten a lot of it. But a sponsor essentially is like a mentor in the program. Hey, I'm going to this meeting and this person said this, or this is happening in my life. I'm getting ready for a gathering that normally there's a lot of drinking, et cetera, help me through this. It's it's the absolute go-to person in the programs. Cause sorta like, uh, a, am I saying it right? Nick? Maybe you can help me with more on them
Speaker 0 00:08:59 If you're saying it. You're saying it right. I'm not going to tell you, huh?
Speaker 2 00:09:02 Yeah. That's okay. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:09:06 Apple say fish. Well Jim say fish,
Speaker 2 00:09:12 Yes. You need a sponsor. Well, the 12 steps are at the core of a sponsor's responsibility to a sponsee and the 12 steps while simple in their nature. When you read them, have a fair amount of work in them and, and process and practice, and a sponsor has worked with people. He's done his own steps, a cup more than a few times, and he's worked with other people. So he's your go-to on the steps. And you work through the steps once and then you keep working through the steps.
Speaker 0 00:09:40 Is this the same sponsor that you've had for the last,
Speaker 2 00:09:44 What? Even before I went to Hazelton while
Speaker 0 00:09:46 You were going on and off the wagon, what was he telling you? What would he say to you when you would come to him and be like, ah, fuck. I drank
Speaker 2 00:09:55 Again. We're starting again. Day one starts right now with this conversation. Let's figure out how to keep moving through it and keep working the steps. He would just tell me me. Thank God. He stood by me. Sponsors have this unique quality that said that they don't leave any wounded on the, on the battleground. Right? He stuck with me. He saw that there was a glimmer of an opportunity here that, that this guy is going to get it. Eventually sponsees fall off. It is part of the gig. So that the role is to say, all right, why do you suppose you did this? What's going on in your life? What defects raising things. We just went through the defects. We see new making some progress and now you've gone backward. Again. What circumstances coming up? You just went to, I'm speaking to one of my sponsees.
Speaker 2 00:10:43 You just want somewhere. You knew that was going to be a bad situation. You didn't come and talk to me about it. You should've said what's the plan in terms of how you're going to get in and out of that situation. Or maybe not even go to that situation because that's going to expose you to drinking things, sneaking thinking, and drinking. That's what he did. There was a time halfway through that where he and another fellow said to me, you ought to think about going to inpatient. I respected these guys. I said, yeah, I'll I'll think about that. Maybe I need to redouble my outpatient effort. Maybe I read it, readable meetings. Maybe I need to do this and do that. But they can't force you to do something you don't want to do. I had to reach my own bottom that in suing winter and spring and reach a point where there was no other option.
Speaker 2 00:11:28 He just had to patiently wait that out. And when he got that call from, and during that time I'd had, when I fell off and my wife found some bottles, she'd call him and say, he's off. Or he drank, you would say, okay, I'll talk to him. And then we'd talk. When are we going to do about it? Et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it's just like having a, having a counselor who I trust. And I owe that man, my life. Cause he not stuck with me. I don't know. I don't know if I would have, it's hard to say I'm not going to get in guesswork. I think I would've hit the bottom anyway. But in any event, that's, that's what a sponsor does. AA
Speaker 0 00:12:05 Described as a spiritual program of recovery. It is a design for living in the word. God is thrown around a lot. And that scares a lot of people off. It's like, Oh no, no, no, no, no. I've tried that God thing, that crazy. God, the guy in the sky with the big beard thrown down, lightning, bolts and smiting and things of that nature. What would you say to someone who says no, they talk about God a lot. It's gotta be a religious program. I'm I'm out. Nope, no, God. Would you say to somebody that says,
Speaker 2 00:12:43 If you read the book carefully and you and you talk to other people, it's not so much God, as it is a higher power. And what does higher power mean? Well, that's another sort of weird concept to what is higher power. It's something bigger than yourself. Why have it? Because there is something bigger than yourself, out there in the world that can help you. We, as alcoholics are thinking, we have the answers ourselves. We can figure this out ourselves. We can't. There is some other power out there bigger than ourselves that we need to look to to help us. It can be God, whatever has you understand him or whatever, or it could be nature, whatever, but it's gotta be something bigger than yourself. That's what the steps say.
Speaker 0 00:13:27 Perhaps an understanding that I am not the director I am, but an actor run and the stage is life is the world. I'm not the director, pushing people around, telling them what to do. I try hell yeah. I try on a daily basis to play God or play the director. And guess what? It doesn't really work out that well for me, because that pushes me towards my next drink, because that makes me think I have all the answers. And if I have all the answers, then while a drink sounds pretty good. Like yeah, I can handle that. And then I drank and then I die. If you had never, I want to know what your spiritual life looked like before you came to alcoholics anonymous. Did you ever relationship with your higher power that you choose to call God? I thought I did. What do you mean by that? I attended church. So you're doing the on-paper things, Jim. Right? I showing up to church singing there.
Speaker 2 00:14:26 It was on the parish council. Well, that was a while back, but still
Speaker 0 00:14:29 Was your relationship with your higher power that you choose to call God? What was that? It wasn't much. Were you having conversations? Were you praying meditating? No. None of that stuff.
Speaker 2 00:14:42 None of that stuff. It was not there. Nick, the term that it's a spiritual program, the word spiritual often connotes a God in a religion. That's not the program. That is not the program. The program. If you look at the Webster's definition of spiritual, it's a positive connection with something, with some other person or something bigger than yourself. I'm paraphrasing, but that's kind of the definition. That's spirituality. Spirituality is getting in touch with a positive force outside of yourself, another person, another group or a God as you understand them or some other force and you put it absolutely correctly. Some other force that's directing the play. You're not, you're just an actor. You're only here for a short time. Anyway, on the number of years on earth, you're just an actor in the deal. Kevin knows has an alcoholic. We want to be the director.
Speaker 2 00:15:33 We want to be the director, the actor, the scene producer. We want to be everything because we think we can do it right. The sooner you give that up, there's no place for alcohol anymore because alcohol helps you get through those times when that doesn't work out. So good. It doesn't work out very good a lot. So if you get that out of the mix, all of a sudden, the path becomes clear to spirituality. So spirituality is, is a multi dimensional definition. Simply put though it's a positive connection with some other thing or person that's bigger than yourself. And I would say the relationship is bigger than myself. This communication today is a spiritual experience. I am dealing with someone who is a positive connection on a Saturday afternoon. That's bigger than, than, than the two of us together. I mean, but together we're making, we're having a spiritual experience. That's all it is. It can be that simple. You said you want to help one person. That's how you started this deal. We already did that. When we walked in the door, you helped me. I helped you nailed it done,
Speaker 1 00:16:39 Don. We shouldn't even be recording right now. Actually, this is outlets. You drove all the way, all the way here. You made the drive. All right, well, yeah, we did it. We did it.
Speaker 2 00:16:52 The truth of course lies in the deeper meaning. And that is we can impact other people's lives. We can do it by example, we can do it by a gentle comment. We can do it by whatever, but we also can't force people to do it. It's a program of attraction, not promotion. People will see the difference. People will see it. And when they see it, it should feed off itself because we give that's what we do. That's what Nick does. That's what Jim does we give. And when we give we receive it's, it's such a trite phrase, but it's the absolute truth.
Speaker 1 00:17:22 I hate those fucking paradox, man.
Speaker 2 00:17:25 The worst bill w is the master of holding two ideas that are in a situation that seemed totally opposite. And you got, if you can live with those, with that concept and figure out the in between, you're good. You're not going to figure it out, but if you can make progress there, but it took, it's a contrasting idea. There really is
Speaker 1 00:17:46 Skillsets branch out from your core, your
Speaker 0 00:17:50 Spirituality, your higher power, what sort of skill sets does that allow you to use as you branch out into that
Speaker 2 00:17:57 Much, much better at the realities of human interaction, everything we do in that job or work or family as a human interaction, if you can get better at that one-to-one or one in three situation, you will become a better person. They will become a better person. They won't be frustrated. They won't be angry if you don't judge them. If you don't come in with ego, if you act emotionally and you act empathetically, if you shut your mouth and listen and not talk the whole time, if you do all those things that I try to practice in my easy does it mantra, which I talked about this morning, as part of my talk, that one of the meetings, that's the skill set I can bring to the world. By example, I can't go to the top of the mountain and preach it by example. And you'll hear some stuff then too, right?
Speaker 2 00:18:45 People will say, Oh, he did that. Or she did that. Well, that wasn't something that they normally would have done. Well, I wonder if they looked at you and said, he's doing it. Why can't I do that? He seems happier. Well, why can't I be happier? So that's a skillset, right? People in the program say, well, I'm an introvert. I can't do that. You can have a one-on-one conversation with another alcoholic. You can do that. Can't you? Yes. You can all day long. And with the power of media and communication, I mean, thank God protects me. I couldn't sit on the phone for an hour and a half of a three conversations with somebody in the morning. We do have to work. We do have to do stuff. We have to take care of our lives.
Speaker 0 00:19:22 It's just hard for addicts and alcoholics for anybody to do define that balance. Yes. But especially what I've found well within myself, trying not to speak for others, trying to find that balance between I'm either all in or I'm all out that black and white thinking.
Speaker 2 00:19:40 That's a bit, that's a danger for an alcoholic.
Speaker 0 00:19:43 Yeah. I am either the best or I am lower than the lowest.
Speaker 2 00:19:49 Yes. It's okay to live in the gray. It's okay. To be imperfect,
Speaker 0 00:19:52 Boring jam.
Speaker 2 00:19:54 Boy. It's a lot more peaceful and serene though. Neck.
Speaker 0 00:19:57 Yeah. I guess
Speaker 2 00:20:00 That's a lot more peace. That's what I had
Speaker 0 00:20:01 Burn and sobriety was that not everything has to be dramatic, even though I am very, very, very dramatic in how I speak and how I move and how I talked to people. But it's transformed and it's being engaged in a different way. And it's being harnessed. It's finding that power greater than myself. Living deep down inside me and saying, okay, you want to go with this or you don't want to do it at all. Let's talk about that. Let's meet somewhere in the middle. And what I find is that when I try and go to the middle, I stopped thinking about what I want. I begin thinking about what I can give.
Speaker 2 00:20:42 It's more dramatic than you think people, what I tell them, I do my three plus or whatever contacts a day. I'll send texts out. I won't hear back from some of the people I send texts to. That sounds boring. Right? You send a text, you don't even get her feedback. Usually it's back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. That's the fun, right? Well, no, you sent out your message. I hope you're having a good day. Hope your recovery is going well. I remember your grandma was going in for surgery. I hope that's going well, period done. That takes you about a minute. You got 16 hours in a day. It takes you 10 minutes to do a few texts. When I say it's dramatic you'll you might hear from that person in two months and they'll go, God, that text was just exactly what I needed that day. That's dramatic. That is that's impacting someone's life that day. And you impact that person's life that day. What about the rest of the people they're interacting with? Oh, that's magic. That's magic for that day. Right? Because now that person goes to work is feeling better about themselves. And they're not going to maybe be mad as much as Joe, who they hate, who works down the hall in the cube. That's dramatic, subtle, not quick but dramatic. Nonetheless,
Speaker 0 00:21:45 Just in a different way. Jim, how do you approach situations outside of AA? So you're not in your warm and cuddly for the most part AA meetings where people can get kind of brutal, but with good intentions behind it. Now all of AA is marvelous. I can't say enough. It's life. Life is very lifelike. Jim, outside of a, how do you approach situations in which you used to drink? Let's say you're going to a hockey game or a ball game. And you're going to this game with somebody that drinks and drinks like you used to, how do you combat those thoughts of, Oh, maybe I could have a drink. How do you navigate?
Speaker 2 00:22:28 Well, one of the plus sides for me is my age and the fact that I've been there done that the 40 years, 45 years of drinking. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:22:35 Okay. So let's say you have a sponsee that is younger than me. Well, let's just say you're my sponsor, right? So yeah, I'm in my early thirties and I'm like, how this is all I do. Like I still want to hang out with my friends, but I also know that I'm an alcoholic and I can't drink, but I do want to spend time with my friends. How do I go do this thing and not drink and not be obsessing about,
Speaker 2 00:22:57 I would offer two comments on that. And I've had this conversation with people at the younger ages. The one comment I'll make is from a macro view. You're a little lucky in the sense that people are drinking less than they used to. I think so young kids actually, there are people in that age range that actually have, they just have the craft beer and they're done that's first thing. Second, if you get into the micro, the book will tell you, do you have a legitimate reason to be at the event? Do you have legitimate reason? Do you have a reason to be with that person or that event? What
Speaker 0 00:23:28 Would be a legitimate reason? Well, a
Speaker 2 00:23:30 Ballgame outside, inside, nice day, crowd sharing, all of that works without alcohol. You can still have fun in that setting because there's an outside thing going on. The danger is the post event where the only thing you're doing, the only thing you're doing is drinking. That's what is the event? If the event is just drinking or drugging, that's not a place you can be anymore. Cause you can't do that comedy show. What would be a great way to go to?
Speaker 0 00:23:56 I want to pause you right there because you said you can't do that. Do you think that's necessarily true that I can't do that? Or is it more of a choice I'm going to choose not to do that? Maybe, maybe the mindset that, yeah, I can't, I can't do that. I believe very strongly in the language that I use internally. How I talk to myself. If I say I can't do something that reminds me of being a child saying
Speaker 2 00:24:21 You can't do that restrict you can't do that.
Speaker 0 00:24:24 And what am I going to do? I'm going to run in the opposite direction and do what you told me. I can't.
Speaker 2 00:24:29 It is a choice. Your question was practical though. And so if you translate it to practical, you have to go and make a decision for me at my age, maybe another way to look at it, dinner out with friends. First thing you do is order a glass of wine, right? Fine. That doesn't bother me. Cause I'm thinking about the meal and the interactions with people and that at that table, I've already made a decision that I do want to interact with these people and be with them. And I want to go with my wife out to dinner, one glass of wine. We order the appetizer, we get the bread, we get the meal. It's the post dinner. Let's have another glass because the only thing you're doing at that point is just sitting around and the drinking now becomes the event. And that's the part that I can't, I choose not to handle anymore. I'll use your words. I choose not to do anymore. To be honest, I feel I can't. I feel I can't do that. Cause that, that kind of would bug me and cause I get bored with that because I'm not, that's not what I do anymore.
Speaker 0 00:25:24 Absolutely. And that's just me nitpicking language for somebody, for somebody that gets hung up on language. Like with the God word, it's important to me that I express that out into the world. That it's not necessarily that I can't, I can whenever I want, but I'm making a conscious choice. Not
Speaker 2 00:25:41 To. Why are you making the choice?
Speaker 0 00:25:43 Because I know what happens when I do drink. And when I drink, I'm getting that much.
Speaker 2 00:25:48 It's closer to death, right? When you asked me what went through my mind before I went to Hazelden, I was going to die. And when I say that, that sounds dramatic. I was either I was going to die emotionally, personally, with respect to people around me, for sure my health was, was going to get worse. So I was, it was going to end up having giving me health problems that could lead me to death or more dramatically. I'd forget the fact that I wasn't driving and drinking and driving or whatever. And I'd do something stupid and hit somebody or somebody would hit me or I crashed into a pole or something. So I was going to die. Had I continued to do that, that went through my mind. And that still is in my mind. That was the last Rodale I wasn't going back for multiple times. I wasn't going to get this right.
Speaker 0 00:26:35 Was imminent reminder or mantra at the very end may very well have saved you in can save many people there that are trying to stop drinking or drugging or using any sort of compulsive behavior. I was dying. Jim was dying in multiple facets. All these caveats of death that can exist in the human experience. And
Speaker 1 00:26:58 It's not, it's not in the ground death always,
Speaker 0 00:27:00 Not always. So Jim was dying. He found some strength that a, he found some strength at Hazel and he found some strength in the fellowship in working the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous. We're going to take a little break. And when we get back, Jim is going to share a little bit about my favorite four letter word. No, it's not.
Speaker 1 00:27:19 Oh, Oh, <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:28:37 What you don't want to have a burping contest with me. Jen,
Speaker 1 00:28:40 Scott and Scott. Here we go.
Speaker 0 00:28:43 You got one. Can you do the fake burp? I used to, I used to fake burp until I hear young barfed. I can still, I can still burp the alphabet.
Speaker 1 00:28:53 Let's let's put a hold on that.
Speaker 0 00:28:55 All right. Well maybe later, right? Like I could burp burp the 12 steps
Speaker 1 00:29:03 One we at med ed. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back to authentic. Yay. We made it to hope, Jim. Let's talk about some.
Speaker 0 00:29:22 Nope. Are you ready? Yes, sir. First I want to know real basic. What does hope mean to you? The word doesn't necessarily have to be a related. Doesn't have to be religious, spiritual. What does the word hope mean to you? It's funny. Cause I
Speaker 1 00:29:39 Usually think of that in terms of what
Speaker 2 00:29:42 It means in terms of giving hope to others. That's where this program has me at this moment. So I have to think about what is the hope for me? It's simple. The hope is this Renaissance continues in all of its glory, the more, and I'm just so hopeful that it will, and I'm gonna work hard at maintaining that hall by faith in a higher power faith, in something that's bigger than myself and not having to worry about defining it precisely every day, just letting it play itself out. That's all I got next year. I often speak of hope in terms of other people. Maybe that's the answer. Maybe the answer is I hope that others can get what I have. Maybe that's the answer. Maybe that's my definition because I do feel there's a bit of a calling for me, my personality and the way that I am able to communicate. And I became a sponsor relatively close to my first year. I'm doing this. You're kidding me. Right? 18 months into the program, I'm doing a podcast for heaven sakes.
Speaker 0 00:30:38 I believe it's pronounced Pat podcast podcast. Pat pad cast. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:30:44 Okay. So what's this fancy Mike here. What's this all about?
Speaker 0 00:30:48 Just don't fucking touch it. Asshole. Just talk into it.
Speaker 2 00:30:52 That has to be the hope definition. You know, I mean I could do a whole, you know, honest, open, willing and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 0 00:30:59 Okay. So you were just about to do a, uh, acronym
Speaker 2 00:31:03 In the program, kind of teaches, uh, uh, you know, uh, honesty, openness and willingness and willingness. That's the how that's how, that's how, the, how of the program I'm mixing up. My, my
Speaker 0 00:31:14 It's okay. I believe in you. It's all good stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:31:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is good stuff. No, I, when I do my story, I usually end with saying, I hope you got what I got. I'm hoping you get what I got.
Speaker 0 00:31:25 You said earlier that it's never too late. You are someone that got sober, clean and seemingly serene at the age of 57, 58 to 58 schematics semantics, close enough, slippery slope also enough. What would you say to someone that is your age at this current moment that says it's too late for me, I'm just, I'm just going to drink till the bitter end. It's too late. I'm out man. And done.
Speaker 2 00:31:56 There is so much more to yourself than what you're doing. When you put that artificial poison in your body, there's so much more that you enjoy stuff more. You enjoy things, more treasure moments, more, you, you can actually sit quietly and silently and enjoy that as opposed to thinking about what you're going to say before, you're the person's even done with whatever they're saying. You can. There's just so much more to it, to life then with alcohol, I would even say to look at your past because it's easy to go down the God. I wish I would have figured this out earlier. And now it's too late. Really? I wasted 40 years. No, no. That's the way it was supposed to be at this particular moment. That's the way it was supposed to be at this moment. The book says we shall not regret the past, nor shall we shut the door on it.
Speaker 2 00:32:43 We don't regret the past. We probably had it a lot of fun when we were drinking til I did. And so, you know, and there were things that happened that weren't super, super negative. I mean really, to be fair, but there are a lot of things that weren't very good and that you didn't know. Weren't very good until you stopped drinking and you'll look back and go, wow, that wasn't very good. You can get a better life now. And one of the pot, the way they pop age, the population is aging. Later in later, older and older, you got a chance of Renaissance, man, you have a chance for Renaissance. You can be a new person. You can be a changed person. You still have all your trades. They're just going to be better. They're just going to be better than they were before, which is, which is so cool. Right? You can still be funny. You can still hold a conversation. You can still, although is very,
Speaker 0 00:33:33 Very awkward at first. No question so awkward doing just normal everyday things. When I first got sober, when I talked to people, I didn't, what do I do with my hands? Do I, do I put them on my hips? Do I put my right hand in my, in my pocket? Do I cross my legs? How, how do I do this? Am I talking too loud? Am I talking too loud? It's so awkward. Felt like a pig on roller skates, man. But it does get better. It does get easier. And not only does it get better and easier,
Speaker 2 00:34:06 It's more fulfilling. I remember. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:34:09 Everything that happened for the most part. Yeah. And I get to be present. I'm not obsessing about when I'm going to get my next drink or do my next line or pop my next pill.
Speaker 2 00:34:19 Well, if I had to, if I had to, to, to, if someone is listening to this, who's, you know, in their fifties or late forties, fifties, or even sixties, I would say, if you try it and you work, it it'll start to reveal itself. It'll just start to reveal itself. But you got to trust it. You got to trust it. It's got to go with it. And don't recoil from it. What happened before is done. It's over. Now you can look back on it and help you frame working on defects and things like that. That says, you know, you shouldn't, you shouldn't shut the door on it. Cause you want to look back and say, okay, here's kind of who I was and here's how I want to change. But don't get hung up on the fact that you're, you don't get it right away. You can't overthink it. I tried to overthink it and that's the wrong way to go do what they say, do what the people at treatments they do at the people in the program. Say, if you do that, it will happen. And don't cut corners. Don't cut corners, don't get complacent.
Speaker 0 00:35:15 That's what drinking and drugging was for me. I wanted relief and I wanted it now. And unfortunately, or fortunately, that's not how
Speaker 2 00:35:25 The world really works
Speaker 0 00:35:27 In my eyes. It takes time. It's that process that you were talking about. I want as an addict and an alcoholic compulsive gambler, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I want what I want when I want it. And I want it fixed now. And that's what alcohol and drugs and all the other compulsive behaviors provided for me was a solution now. And that is what's so fucking hard about doing the sobriety deal to the best of my ability because I can't see it. I can't see it. And the wonderful thing that I've found in AA is that people around me will tell me, Holy shit, there's something about your eyes. You just have that clarity. You have that, that twinkle in your eye. Look at, look at how you reacted to this situation a month ago. Yeah, you are changing before my eyes. And that is what the fellowship of alcoholics anonymous has really provided for me is a different frame of mind. This, this perception, this outsider's perspective that I need.
Speaker 2 00:36:29 Well, you just, you just highlighted a shortcoming that many of us have. I have it impatience. I gotta have it now. Gotta get it fixed. Now, if I sent this email Hockney and respond, the program teaches you patience. And there's so much serenity and patience and just going, okay, it's out there. My move on to something else. It will get solved. It will get fixed. That doesn't mean you can't eat. You still might have to follow up on something later, but it teaches you that patience and stuff changes within 24 hours. If he didn't respond right away, even in the conversation, it changes life. You just go silent for awhile.
Speaker 0 00:37:03 And I don't want to get it twisted that only alcoholics and addicts are impatient. Everybody's fucking impatient. But when it comes to my experience, it is amplified like a motherfucker. My impatience is so amplified because something in my brain changes when I put any drinker, drug, whatever into my system, I am bodily and mentally different than 90% of the population. And that's okay. I just have to learn how to adult just like everyone else
Speaker 2 00:37:39 And the other wonderful revelation as to watch those who aren't alcoholics deal with all their shortcomings. That's
Speaker 0 00:37:46 So cool and not,
Speaker 2 00:37:49 Well, I'll say those that don't and you go, first of all, you're in a great spot because you're not going to control what they're going to do. You're just, you're going, that's their deal. It's got to figure out my deal, which he never did before. Now you can do that, but then you watch it and you go, wow, look how impatient they're being. Look how judgemental they're being. Look at that. And you're not doing it to cast aside. You're just observing now and going one of my phrases is I wish everybody.
Speaker 0 00:38:12 I was forced to go through the 12 step program. Maybe not forced, but exposed to I don't expose to. Yes. Forced. No, because if you forced me to do that shit,
Speaker 2 00:38:23 Okay, wouldn't it be nice. If that was a part of the curriculum in high school, we're going to make it go through the 12th at age 35, you will. It is a requirement continue, uh, in your current civilization to do the 12 steps. So we're going to ask you to get your certified, your 12 step certification at age 35. I think the world would be a lot better if people maybe practice something and some people do practice those principles too. So I'm not saying everybody, but
Speaker 0 00:38:50 When I practice those principles and what you were talking about, I just kind of had this flashback to being in the grocery store last week, just before Thanksgiving. And I was watching this person just be angry in line because the checker was going slower than they would have liked them to do sweating, grinding their teeth, just looking around, rolling their eyes, giving people the death stare. And I'm witnessing this. I'm just witnessing this. I felt immense gratitude because that used to be me. That could very easily still be me. If I don't take care of my spiritual self, if I don't get in constant contact with that higher power of mine, whatever I choose to call it, it don't matter if I'm not in conscious contact on a daily basis. I can feel it because I start grinding my teeth and I start getting sweaty and staring at people in the checkout line. Wondering why they aren't freaking out. Just like me. Do you, can you see this fucking guy?
Speaker 2 00:39:49 And you didn't try to fix him either? No, I witnessed cause your deal. That's the other beauty of the program. You go, not my job to fix that. That's uh, that's something out of my control. And that's another program tenet it's out of my control. I mean the serenity prayer says that, except the things you can't control, chant change, you can't change that. Person's behavior. I actually exhibit empathy. Now in those situations, I go, wow, wonder what's going on in that guy's life. Why is he so ticked off something's going on
Speaker 0 00:40:17 And a perfect opportunity to pray for someone? Yes. And what did you say when we at our break to pray is actually what
Speaker 2 00:40:26 One of the definitions for pray in Websters is an earnest wish.
Speaker 0 00:40:31 And that's all. What if I prayed for this person? What if I earnestly wished that this person could find serenity? Like I've found it? What if I earnestly wished that this person leaves here today and has a better day finds some sort of goodness in the world when they leave here today
Speaker 2 00:40:50 Or what's, what's bugging him. What's in the closet, what's in the box, in the closet, what's in the box. That's within the box. That's causing him trouble. I earnestly wish that he can somehow be relieved of some of that stress. Cause it's coming out in this anger at the checkout line, which is, if you think about crazy five was two extra minutes of his life, five extra minutes of his life.
Speaker 0 00:41:14 Very important minutes, Jim, very important.
Speaker 2 00:41:17 It's not as important as the two minute drill for Aaron Rogers in the green Bay. But those two minutes are very
Speaker 0 00:41:24 What an animal now about 12 vignette programs. Number one, and ya hots, Aaron and ratchets. Jim, you talked about drinking and driving and all the horrible things that can happen when people do drink and drive, people are losing their lives. It's been that way since the automobile or transportation was invented. When you mix drinking or drugging and operating a vehicle, people die. Why do you think you weren't one of those people that died or killed someone speaking for myself? I can not tell you how many times I drove intoxicated. Thousands. Thousands of times.
Speaker 2 00:42:04 Yes. The clarity of this program and my renewed spirituality tells me the answer. And the answer is thus, I didn't get killed. I didn't kill somebody. Cause I was meant to be sitting in this chair and I was meant to have this Renaissance. That's what he wanted for me.
Speaker 0 00:42:23 Jim, part of the AA program, as I work along, comes to this step in which I make amends for my past misgivings wrongdoings injuries. Have you made it to that steps? Step nine. Yes. And step nine is,
Speaker 2 00:42:42 Well, step eight says you made a list, made a list of, of people you've wronged, uh, in life. Step nine says you make amends to them wherever possible, ever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Speaker 0 00:42:57 What did that amends process look like for you?
Speaker 2 00:43:00 It's putting a list of the things you did down on a piece of paper. You'd do that back in a stuff bar, which is an inventory of those
Speaker 0 00:43:07 Just when I was drinking or drugging or what all things, my whole life,
Speaker 2 00:43:12 All things. Yes. That's a lot of things that were bad. Yeah. You can group them. I mean, I'm not going to list every drunk driving incident. It was just going to say drove drunk. Plenty who got put them into large buckets. And then you go back to those people who you wronged for me. You don't say, you're sorry, you don't ask for forgiveness. He is say I was wrong. I'm making on a man. I was wrong. The word amend means to change. What's an amendment to the constitution. It's changing the constitution. Amend means you're changing. So you're making amends, you're changing. And you're saying I was wrong. That's the process for me. My process was to go back through that. The closest person in my life, I had to make an, a mento. It was my wife. I did that. That is more living amends with her.
Speaker 2 00:43:54 Cause she's saying you got to build the trust back up again. And it's still, you don't drink for 40 years or? Well, we were married at 37. You don't drink for all those 37 years and all of a sudden, boom. Okay, everything's fine. I live that with her, with others who I don't deal with on a regular basis, I have to go back. Cause I wouldn't say when I did that incident was wrong. Did something dishonest when I treated you badly when I was drunk at your event or if it wasn't drunk, if I did something just nasty to you, I want to let you know that I recognize it was wrong.
Speaker 0 00:44:24 And what sort of response do you get?
Speaker 2 00:44:26 Mine has universally been very positive. Thank Hmm. I don't think about it that much. I don't even remember what you're talking about or I am so glad that you've gotten sober way to go. Thank you for taking the time to send this man. To me.
Speaker 0 00:44:43 That's that's the one that I get a lot is good for you because people can see little glimpses of who you really are without the alcohol, without the drugs, without the fill in the blank. People have that clarity. They can see who you really are. It's just immensely weighed down and blinded by our drinker drug of choice. And that's the great thing is they actually get to see the real deal all the time. It's not always good. It's not always bad. It doesn't matter. It just is. And that's for me, the beauty of sobriety is showing up as my authentic self showing up as my authentic,
Speaker 2 00:45:29 Put a catchy thing there, Nick. Yeah. You should name like a radio podcast thing. Call authentic. I should think about that. Yeah, that'd be cool. So my suggestion to you today, it's all alcoholics help one another. Oh,
Speaker 0 00:45:43 Do you think, do you think people would listen? I doubt it.
Speaker 4 00:45:46 No dotted. Seriously. Chicken soup for the soul batch.
Speaker 0 00:45:54 Well, this is kind of pointless. All
Speaker 4 00:45:55 Right, Jim. Well, this has been fun and tell your wife you'll be home soon. I told you we had a meeting, so we've already won. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. Everybody else is just extra. The microphones. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:46:07 It's fun. It's fun to hear my own voice inside my ears with these very expensive headphones. I don't even know why I bought these very expensive. Very excited.
Speaker 2 00:46:17 Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Big time.
Speaker 0 00:46:21 All right. Jim final question. And you've answered it multiple times throughout this interview testimony, but I really want you to reiterate what you want your legacy as a human being, to be besides Marla's tail and shake and
Speaker 2 00:46:38 Nose on my, uh, hand. Hmm,
Speaker 0 00:46:41 Nice cold and wet. Jim, what do you want your legacy as a human being to be
Speaker 2 00:46:46 He gave, he gave two words. He gave that that would work. I could go long if it wears a tombstone who knows. And it's never too late. It's never too late to change. I've been, that'd be a little longer one, but it's never too late to change.
Speaker 0 00:47:01 It's only like forwards longer, Jim. Yeah. Well, if you want to go, it's never too late to change. It's six, six months. Yeah. Oh man. I totally did that. Math. It's never too late is the foreword is that it's never too late. Is that following
Speaker 2 00:47:17 Words? Is that that's four. Yeah. Four.
Speaker 0 00:47:19 Oh, we can like fuck the contraction. It is never too late. That's five. That's still only three more than he gave.
Speaker 2 00:47:26 It's not a haiku exercise here for having sex.
Speaker 0 00:47:30 Five, seven, five, five, seven, five. Nailed it. I am big pentameter. There's there's one for, for the history books. Jim. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you for your service me today. No, thanks. Well, thank you. Thank you, Jim. I've been working on saying thank you. When somebody says things to me that are nice. You truly have saved one life here tonight. I know you've saved mine. I didn't have a drink in the last two hours. What a great way to put down. All right, Jim, I'm going to give you an opportunity to really be a radio DJ, a podcast, a pad, a pad. I think it's pronounced pad caster. What would you like your sign-off line to be? You know, mine, right? Be good to yourselves. It's important. Something my grandfather used to say, be good to yourselves. Be good to yourselves who is also a recovering alcoholic, by the way, what would you like your sign-off line to be tonight? It's never too late. It's never too late.
Speaker 1 00:48:30 <inaudible> always here on authentic and keeping authentic. We have to pay credit where credit is due. The musical stylings. You add on today's program to open the show. You always hear my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my mad madness by muse. And then we got into Jim's pit. Jim Jim's jams, Jimmy Jimmy jam, Jimmy jam, jock jam. Jim Jim's picks. First. You heard in the garden by van Morrison. <inaudible> you are going to hear bright side of the road. Also
Speaker 0 00:49:18 Van Morrison and remember be good to yourselves. It is ever so impartial.
Speaker 1 00:49:27 <inaudible>.
