Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hey you. Yeah, you, if you or someone you know, is struggling with anything mentioned on today's program, please, please, please, Speaker 1 00:00:10 Please, please, please Speaker 0 00:00:12 Email [email protected]. That's a U T H E N I C K. The [email protected]. I am available 24 7 365 to help in any way that I can. I have resources. I have open ears and open heart and tons of hope. I've been freely given all these things and would love to give them to you. Be good to yourselves and each other. Follow me on Twitter, using the handle at authen neck and my dog, Marla on Instagram at DJ Marla dot Jean. During today's program, you will hear a mentioned multiple times, the individual expressing their thoughts and opinions do not reflect AA or Alanon as a whole. Please enjoy the FCC. Won't let me be your, let me be meet. So let me see. I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to all the artists, whose music I used in season one. So now you get Speaker 1 00:01:16 To hear me Speaker 0 00:01:17 Saying, is she going to be real good? Speaker 1 00:01:33 Bye. Hey Paul . I am a drug addict to eating disorder. we aim to bring all the stigma to hedges. You have experience Strang and cause this is Speaker 0 00:03:31 This is Speaker 0 00:03:44 My name is Nicholas Thomas Fitzsimmons, Vanda Naval, but most people just call me Nick, and this is my show authentic. It's like we're authentic. But instead of tick, Speaker 1 00:03:57 I added Nick clever K. Speaker 0 00:04:02 Oh right. And with me as always is my darling dog. Go back to eating that door jam anyway, here on authentic, where we get authentic, we talk about all things recovery. Well, what do I mean by that? All things recovery. Well, what I mean by that is if you are still living and breathing on this earth, you yes Speaker 0 00:04:32 Are in recovery from something. As for myself, I am in recovery from alcoholism. I am an alcoholic. I'm also a drug addict. I'm a compulsive gambler. I have an eating disorder. I bipolar disorder. Really the list could go on and on and on and on and on and on. And unluckily for you. The show is not. I repeat it is not about me. It is however about two people. First is my guest, Jackie, who will share her experience, strength and hope as it pertains to what she is in recovery from the second person. This show is about is the one person who is going to be helped and given hope by listening to Jackie here today, because we want to tell people that you are not alone. We want to smash some stigma here, but without further XE, Jackie, they'll come to this show. Please introduce yourself in any way you see fit. Hi, I'm Jackie. Hi Jackie. Hi. Hello, welcome. Thank you. Excited to be here. I'm excited that you're here and I'm excited that you're excited to be here because that excites me in a very platonic way. Of course, like not sexual. I'm not sexually excited, right? Yeah. Got it. I just wanted to get that sexual thing out of the way, because I know it was on the mind of every one of our listeners. They could feel it. They could feel the tension. Speaker 0 00:06:01 Jackie, why are you Jackie? Why're you here? Speaker 3 00:06:04 I am here to share my story in the hopes that it would help someone else Speaker 0 00:06:10 Marvelous. Well, you're in the right place. I just wanted to let you know you made it. You made it to the right spot. Jackie, what are you in recovery from? Speaker 3 00:06:19 Oh my gosh. All the Speaker 0 00:06:20 Things, all the things. That is my favorite because I like to pinpoint it a little bit. Like in my intro, I say it really fast. Really? I'm in recovery from life. I'm in recovery from all the things, all the things. What sort of things in particular did you want to discuss tonight? Speaker 3 00:06:38 I am in recovery from alcohol. I have an eating disorder. I have bipolar Speaker 0 00:06:43 Disorder or basically the same Speaker 3 00:06:45 Person. And I did like to gamble for like a stint there. So Speaker 0 00:06:50 We are totally the same person. Well, I'm glad you're here. Good. Let's start from the very beginning. I always like to hear what made tracky. Okay. Let's start from the beginning. What was your childhood like if you care to disclose? So Speaker 3 00:07:10 My, I had a really good childhood actually probably like an ideal upbringing. I had two parents that really loved their children. And as a result, we were like, the center of the universe grew up in a small town and not that small, but it was small enough and super active in the community. Played a lot of sports. Good in school. Speaker 0 00:07:29 Well, that sounds ideal, Jackie. It was Speaker 3 00:07:32 Till a certain age. Yeah, Speaker 0 00:07:35 Some weird shit. Then with Jackie, Jackie, when did shit start to go in another direction from this perfect little nest of an upbringing where you were the center of your parents' universe, Speaker 3 00:07:51 Like high school, maybe about 17. I would say everybody kind like was already gearing towards a future. And I was very much not thinking ahead. Like I was enjoying partying on the weekends. I liked my friends. I just wasn't really looking ahead slowly. Like it started getting scarier and scarier, like doing college visits and all this. And I just, I didn't really know. And then I got broken up with, by a high school boyfriend, which is just asshole. Well, it happens to everyone, but I took it like a little bit harder than probably most people would. I spiraled like immediately after into, we didn't know what it was, but just like a severe depressive episode. Speaker 0 00:08:32 Did you experience anything like that growing up? Do you ever remember feeling like, oh, I'm really sad and I don't know why or I have horrible anxiety and I don't know why, even if you aren't able to label it as anxiety or depression for myself, I could totally. Now I can say, oh my God, I was anxiety ridden. I was having anxiety attacks. I was depressed even as a little child. Was that your experience or not really? Speaker 3 00:08:58 I can't say that. It was like, I drank, I started when I started drinking, it definitely solves something. Like I had my first drink at like 15 in a friend's basement. And I remember, I remember just thinking, this is what I'm going to do now. Like everything had to make sense and like it calmed something, but it was never, I never had an awareness of anxiety or depression until kind of just like the rug got pulled out from under me at 17. What do Speaker 0 00:09:21 You mean? This is what I'm going to do now? Speaker 3 00:09:23 Oh, it just like made everything. Okay. Like I felt like I had just kinda been running around a little lost. I just had that first drink. And I remember I was partying with my friends and it just clicked. Like I remember that first time I got a buzz and then every week I'm ever, that just became about finding the next party or whose parents were at a town. And, Speaker 0 00:09:42 And that's typical high school stuff for many people, but for some, it just doesn't go away and it just keeps getting worse. So there was this traumatic event at 17 where your boyfriend broke up with you and the people around you were gearing up towards their future. And you're like, yeah, I don't know what I'm going to do. Right. So where did that take you then? Speaker 3 00:10:07 Well, I started just having terrible anxiety. I couldn't go to school. It was paralyzing. They wanted there to be a physical cost. So I was getting all these tests. I was getting MRIs, trying to figure out, like they thought I had a brain tumor. And then when they came back and the doctor's like, I think she just needs some Prozac. It's just, my family is like, no way. Like it just kind of, we had to come to like this conclusion that through a bunch of antidepressants at it, it just didn't go away. And it got worse and worse and they labeled it treatment resistant, depression. Speaker 0 00:10:37 What does that mean? Treatment resistant, like meds don't work or what, what does that, Speaker 3 00:10:41 Yeah, it means any combination of meds. They were trying to throw at me. Wasn't making it better. Speaker 0 00:10:46 You mentioned that your anxiety was paralyzing and that your depression was paralyzing. What do you mean paralyzing? Like, I Speaker 3 00:10:53 Couldn't get out of bed. Speaker 0 00:10:54 Literally could not get out of bed. No. Some people find that hard to buy, right? Like, are you just being lazy? Speaker 3 00:11:01 I remember my mom and my brother coming down to like, try to get me to go to school and I just couldn't. Yeah, it was heartbreaking. I just like, it didn't make sense from the outside, but I just had no will to live. Like I was like, I just want to lay here forever. Speaker 0 00:11:15 How did your drinking, how did alcohol have an effect on that depression? That anxiety that was paralyzed? Speaker 3 00:11:23 Interestingly enough, alcohol kind of took a pause during that time and came back to have a second act later in life. Really? During that time I didn't drink. I didn't do anything. I just was like, Speaker 0 00:11:36 How long did that period of that catatonic state? Almost. How long did that last for? Speaker 3 00:11:42 I say six months kept throwing anti-depressants at me, all these different treatments. I was hospitalized for a little bit. And then eventually one day I just went sky high manic. I just told everyone I was feeling better. And no one really knew what it was. I like went into a full blown, manic episode. It was the summer. Can you explain Speaker 0 00:12:01 What this manic episode was? Speaker 3 00:12:03 Like? Mania feels like you're on top of the world. Like it's like you're Santa Claus on Christmas Eve doing cocaine. Like you just are high on life. It's just hard to describe to someone not experienced in it. And it looks weird from the outside, but you just, you talk a lot, you spend a lot, you just like feel capable of anything superpower. Speaker 0 00:12:25 What was everybody's reaction to this new Jackie? This manager? Speaker 3 00:12:29 Yeah, I lost, well, some of my friends that cared about me were trying to hang on. Like, they're like this isn't, this isn't who you are. And I'm like, this is just who I am after depression. And I didn't know what it was like at all. I thought this was the new me and fuck everyone else. Like who wasn't on board with the new meat? My family was just terrified because I had always been like I drank and slept, but I just, I just, I kind of played by the rules as much as a high school teenage girl does. Total went off the edge. The manic episode was a huge part of like, it's a, he's still a huge part of my life to this day. Like, I've done a lot of healing over it, but it was pretty, pretty wild. Speaker 0 00:13:06 I said, you are doing healing now, still over that. What had transpired that you're still healing over that experience? Speaker 3 00:13:15 My behavior, like I just did a lot of shit. I regret. And I had a lot of shame from that. Like man mania manifests itself in like, like I opened a bunch of credit cards and like ran in my friend's names. Also like has high rate of promiscuity and in a small town that gives you a certain reputation. You know, I just cut off a lot of people. I made my friends didn't really like the new me. So I made new friends who just drank more and partied more and didn't know I was anything, but this manic version of myself, a lot of that behavior, I had so much shame that I've just been unraveling since then. And I'm in a much different place about it than I have been. But how Speaker 0 00:13:51 Long did that manic episode last Speaker 3 00:13:53 For? So it was the summer after my senior year, three months there. And then I went to college manic and I highly recommend if you want to make a lot of friends your first year in college go manic. Um, because I did, I knew everyone, everyone knew me, then I kind of, and I was unmedicated. And then so like in school first semester, I mean in school quote on quote, like I was not there to study everything. Like I was partying, knew everyone. And then like second semester, I just started coming back down again. And that was the first time my doctor is like, we think she's bipolar. They had kind of talked about it when I was manic. But when you're manic, you don't want to not feel like it feels good. It Speaker 0 00:14:32 Feels real Speaker 3 00:14:34 Good. Right. When you're manic, you don't want someone to like put some mood stabilizers in here and like bringing it down. But when I started feeling shitty again, oh, I was like willing to be like, yeah, this is not normal. Speaker 0 00:14:45 And unfortunately, a lot of people that are in these manic episodes go to certain lengths and extremes that put themselves in danger and some people actually die or end up going to prison or serious, serious repercussions for this manic episode that I'm on top of the world. Nobody can touch me, I can do anything. And then that ugly reminder that the other side of that is extreme depression. So when you went into that extreme depression, what happened in your life then? Speaker 3 00:15:21 Nothing. I think it was honestly just unmedicated and eventually the mania wore off and I just started coming back down, but that's when I realized like, okay, I'm need to take meds. Like they'd given me meds for depression. I took them. And then when I felt better, I stopped taking him and I was kind of just messing around with them. And that's when I was like, okay, like coming into grips. Yes. I needed to take medication. And so they played around with meds for a little bit and got me to like a stable place. Speaker 0 00:15:45 And have you been stable ever since Speaker 3 00:15:48 For a while? Speaker 0 00:15:50 Yeah. So how long were you stable for on these new medications? And did you like it? Did you like being stable or was it, did you kind of miss the mania? You were happy that, or at least not pissed that you weren't super depressed? Speaker 3 00:16:03 Uh, my depression was so bad that I was willing to take anything. Then the second time I got depressed, I had so much shame from like the high school shit that I was like, just drug me. Like I was like, I need help. Like I like, that's when I started self-medicating cause like I wasn't just taking like some antidepressants and calling it a day. I was like chasing it down with a bottle of vodka and pod and whatever I could like numb with too. But at least I was taking my meds. Speaker 0 00:16:30 Yes. Because your mental health meds totally work when you're drinking. Right. Jackie Speaker 3 00:16:36 Did it for probably 15 years. Probably. Totally. My doctors didn't know, but Speaker 0 00:16:41 I was being super sarcastic because mental health medication does not work very well when you're drinking. Speaker 3 00:16:47 I know. But like, Speaker 0 00:16:49 Are you God's gifts, are you God's gift to drinking on medication and the medication actually works? No. Speaker 3 00:16:55 No. I think I like, I have like nine lives. Like there's many times, you know, pretty lucky to be here with the amount of used to drink on the doses I used to. But yeah, I never was like super stable until I got sober. Speaker 0 00:17:09 How long did the drinking continue on for? Was there any sort of repercussions throughout college? What did your next few steps look like? Speaker 3 00:17:20 It's like gross. I don't want to think about it. I like, I lived in a house with like 15 girls and we drank and drank and drank. I mean, my life was just a party, like seven days a week. I was miserable. Also having a good time. I wasn't happy. I mean, it took me how many years did two weeks. Speaker 0 00:17:35 We'll go to college for seven years. Jackie and I have not held doctors. Speaker 3 00:17:40 I'm not a doctor. So I was like the last one on campus. I think like one thing that happened that should have been probably a bottom. I had a lot of soft bottoms, a lot where you should really limit, like maybe I shouldn't do this anymore or something like that really hit you that like, oh, kind of this whole moment, like, oh, this isn't good powered through those. Usually I blacked out drunk and broke my tibia, another rod and six screws put in my leg and kind of walk for a year. Speaker 0 00:18:09 You did that? No, you D you still have no idea. Speaker 3 00:18:13 I think it was on the step at this bar upstairs. I don't know though, but I told everyone, so it was like the night of finals. I was four hours from my house. My parents had came and got me and drove me, told I lied to everyone and told them I like fell in one of those street gutters. Do you know what talking about? Tripped on the street. Speaker 0 00:18:33 Like a man or Speaker 3 00:18:33 No wick was the sewer. You just lie pathologically when you're in active addiction. And so my mom was like, what? I was walking and I like fell foot, got caught and I kept moving forward and it broke it. Oh, Speaker 0 00:18:46 Oh, wow. See that just made me go, which is probably a great lie because I'm just imagining it. And I'm just like, oh my God. Speaker 3 00:18:54 Right? Yeah, totally. Everyone did. And then my friend came to visit me in the hospital and she was like, how did you do this? I go, I have no idea. I have no idea. Speaker 0 00:19:02 And nobody saw it. No. Speaker 3 00:19:03 I was like, I know I was upstairs at the bar when it happened, because I was, I remember being carried down stairs. So I knew I couldn't walk. I went up the stairs walking. I know I couldn't walk on the way down. So it had to happen upstairs at this point. Speaker 0 00:19:18 So that was your aha moment. That was a bottom for you. Speaker 3 00:19:24 It was a soft bottom. Speaker 0 00:19:26 Oh, I liked that. That's your soft bottom, your house. This is going to get so much better. Speaker 3 00:19:33 I like it. If I think about timing on that, it was, and it was final. So it was like right before Christmas and I was already drinking again by new year's Eve. Of course. Yeah. No, that's what I mean, like soft bottom. Like it could have probably made me stop a little longer thinking. Speaker 0 00:19:49 Yeah. Five days, four or five days. That's a good break. Right? That's a good long break reflect. Yeah. You gotta recoup. I'm sure you weren't drinking and taking pain pills at the same time or anything like that. Doesn't sound like me. Speaker 3 00:20:06 No, Speaker 0 00:20:07 No. That doesn't sound like an addict at all. What is your continued experience then following your breaking of your tibia and fibula getting a rod and some pins and screws and nuts and bolts. Speaker 3 00:20:22 Yeah. So I can, I went to college my last year in a wheelchair. I did graduate. I just like, I like throughout my life, my parents did everything they could to just like help me along the way, which I'm still super grateful for. So I did, I graduated from college and just got like, I was like a travel agent and got a job and I had a job. I held a job, had to live with my dad for awhile. So I was always just like, I was not thriving. I was just like surviving. Speaker 0 00:20:49 Yeah. What did your drinking and drug use look like then? I had it gotten worse since you had, or had it gotten a little lighter since you were out of like the college atmosphere? Speaker 3 00:21:04 I just like, I ha I was super medicated during that time. So I was pretty numb. Like, I call it like the lost decade because like, I wasn't really happy. It wasn't really sad. I was just like existing sort of, Speaker 0 00:21:18 And you're talking heavily medicated as in the mental health medication they were giving you was just making you avoid. Speaker 3 00:21:25 Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:21:27 Just a walking void, Speaker 3 00:21:28 Like existing. And the only thing I really had was drinking, I kept it together. Like I was pretty functioning. Like I held my job, but weekends, I just totally binge drink, but it was just like what everyone around me did. So I didn't think anything of it at the time. Speaker 0 00:21:44 Right. And that is fairly, fairly common for people in their twenties post-college or even people throughout their lives, get my shit done during the week. And I'm in a party on the weekend. It's like, that's, that is what normal people do. Let's not get that twisted. But for alcoholics and drug addicts, we take that a little bit far. It's not just getting shit faced. It's blacking the Falk out and drinking as much as we possibly can. At that time. How much would you say you were drinking and were you drinking during the week or just on the weekends? Speaker 3 00:22:19 Bringing during and the weekends, but I was drinking. I don't even know like a bottle of like captain Morgan, probably. I like whatever I could get in me. Like I just drank until it was morning. Really. There wasn't ever an end point until I blacked out and passed out. That was like always the goal was a blackout. I kind of had like a moment of just like, I don't know what happened, but they tweaked my meds, went on at a lower dose of medication. My friend tried to help me get this job. So someone like believed in me more than I believed in myself at the time. And I like got a really great opportunity for a job and started like really working on myself. Like I threw myself into self-help stuff and I had like a good run going, um, got a new job, was kind of like, this is my new life now. And that worked for a while. And then I started drinking pretty heavily on Speaker 0 00:23:05 A new job. What do you mean by drinking? Pretty heavily. I Speaker 3 00:23:08 Went into marketing and sales. It was really convenient because I could drink in work. You know, we were doing a lot of business dinners. Uh, my job was traveling for events, so, and I ran with a really hard partying crowd at the company. It was just how I escaped. It was like a way to just like I could travel and drink and it was just my life. Speaker 0 00:23:28 And when did that all come crashing down in evidently in every alcoholic and drug addict and mental health issued person, how would you even say that mental health, mental health challenge, Speaker 3 00:23:45 Except all, Speaker 0 00:23:48 All of them work inevitably for people that have those issues, it comes to a crashing fucking halt. When did that all come to a crashing fucking Speaker 3 00:23:58 Halt? I'm also workaholic. I think I forgot to say, Speaker 0 00:24:02 Hold on, let me write that down cable, add that to the paragraph of Jackie's diagnoses Speaker 3 00:24:07 And my things. Thanks. And I would just get super stressed out with work. I would drink a lot. And at that point I was drinking. This is like probably this is November, 2016, I would say. So I had bet on the job, like four years fall was my travel season where I could just leave, not ever face life. And I, so I was drinking pretty heavily at this event. I had started realizing the only way I felt better, um, when drinking was early in the morning. And the only way I felt better was to have a drink when I woke up. So, Speaker 0 00:24:35 Yeah. Speaker 3 00:24:35 And when you travel, like in your, at airports, always acceptable to have a hair of the dog, like it's just totally. Yeah. At least in my head, Speaker 0 00:24:44 I figured out probably I was sober when I actually, I like made it make sense in my head, what hair or the dog actually meant for me. That's just what I called my morning drink. Oh, a little hair of the dog, because I've heard Speaker 3 00:24:57 People say, Speaker 0 00:25:00 Oh, you don't know what it means. That means. Okay. So you have a little hair of the dog that bit, you last night. So a dog bit you last night. I E I got wasted. So I got to have just a little bit of hair of that dog. That bit, me just wondering. Speaker 3 00:25:18 No, I never knew it. You are Speaker 0 00:25:19 Welcome. Thank Speaker 3 00:25:20 You. Speaker 0 00:25:21 I've learned. You're welcome. You are so welcome, Jackie. Oh my God. We're learning. We're learning so hard. Speaker 3 00:25:30 I love using phrases my whole life and not knowing Speaker 0 00:25:32 What they mean. No fucking clue. No fucking clue. No drinking in the airport. Totally acceptable. Speaker 3 00:25:39 Yeah. And I was just like spun up on work. I mean, I use like work was like game of Thrones to me. Like there was always drama. There was always somebody I was after ironically, I was just unraveling. Like I was not tracking everything. The ironic part is a month before I hit my real bottom. I was employee of the year. So Speaker 0 00:26:00 Of course Speaker 3 00:26:01 It was like a fall from grace, like in everyone's eyes. But really, it was like, the unraveling had begun long before that. But the story goes, I came home from a work trip and it was like November 24th, 2016, I came home and I had been drinking just like a bender, I would say. And I came home and just like would come home from trips and just like, pass, like take meds and just pass out, try to sleep it off for a while. Then when I got home, I took my as to fall asleep. And then I woke up in the middle of the night, forgot it, taken some meds, took some more meds and ended up putting myself into a medic medication. Induced state of psychosis. Yeah. I don't remember a ton about it. My dad came up because I was just like crazy, Speaker 0 00:26:52 Crazy. I mean, I'm sure he told you a little bit about what you did. What is medically chemically induced psychosis? Speaker 3 00:27:00 I just remember the feeling. I was just out of my mind, like, I wasn't, I was paranoid that people were following me. I thought there's like government outside that houses. It was had some stuff wrapped up in like, politics was just crazy. I was kinda like, I try to like, I I'm like, but no one wants to talk about your psychosis episode. I do. Speaker 0 00:27:23 I'm a glutton for pain. I find it fascinating. Speaker 3 00:27:29 Yeah. But I was just saying crazy things. I had like treads and my dad drove me to the hospital and they put me in Fairview. And Speaker 0 00:27:36 That was it. Speaker 3 00:27:37 That was it. Yeah. Lock me up. I'm done Speaker 0 00:27:40 Jails institutions and death. Speaker 3 00:27:45 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:27:45 Yeah. Those are the three things that you inevitably get from this cycle of drinking and drugging, promiscuity, mental health issues. It's jails, institutions and death, unless we quit. Right. So that was your bottom. What's the next thing that you remember? Speaker 3 00:28:03 I remember it really sucked ferry really sucks because they didn't have my records. So they had to take me off all my meds and start over. And I had been on like meds for 17 years. It felt like my brain broke. Like I was just, ah, sucked. I had to admit to all of my doctors that I had been drinking the whole time, which was news to them. They're like, you can't do that anymore. Um, but it scared me enough. Like, I was grateful for that. Cause I was like, I know I don't want to do this again. This didn't work out. Well, it really sucks. Cause I had to start over with medications and that is just like excruciating, like, Speaker 0 00:28:45 Is that so excruciating for those that don't necessarily understand what it's like to try out new mental health medications Speaker 3 00:28:54 Or just the victim of the drugs? Like my brain was broke. Like I couldn't really follow conversations or like stuff would be fragmented like a tree. Like I would try to do stuff to write and like, I wasn't really making sense. Like you can feel the gears trying to shift to click then. Nevermind that like terrifying anxiety. It's hell I don't know how else to describe it. It's like living being awake in Speaker 0 00:29:19 Hell. Must have been a very lonely place to be Jackie. Speaker 3 00:29:22 Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely. Speaker 0 00:29:25 I'm sorry. You had to go through that. Thank you. I'm glad you're here now. Speaker 3 00:29:30 And I'm not in a weird way. I'm thankful for it because it just stopped the brakes at a decent age where I could get shipped. Speaker 0 00:29:37 You are grateful that you didn't die probably right? Yeah. And oddly enough, sometimes that's what it takes for alcoholics and drug addicts of our type to either get help or Thai. Right. It has to be something so climactic, so intense. So pivotal where it's like either you could help or you're going to fucking die it's it has to get that bad. Speaker 3 00:30:04 It did. And there wasn't anything short of that, that would've made me. Speaker 0 00:30:08 It is part of this show's goal to reach people out there that do struggle with these things that do struggle with mental health issues that do struggle with alcoholism that do struggle with drug addiction, depression, anxiety, you don't have to follow in our footsteps. You don't have to do the same thing that Nick and Jackie did. You can stop earlier. Yeah. Now easier said than done. I like to be a living example and a voice of reason and a voice of hope that you don't have to go there. You don't have to. It's hard to learn, but it's my hope that one person won't have to go to the lengths that I went to in my addiction in order to get some help. All right. We are going to take a little break. And when we come back, Jackie is going to talk about how she got some H E L P help. Yeah, we can bail on this program here. Jackie strong. Jackie, do you sing? Do you want to try? Okay. Sure. Okay. We're going to do like one of those. We're going to be like a bebop group. Okay. So I'm going to go well, um, and then you're going to go another octave and then you're going to go well. Um, and then I'm going to go well, and then together, we're going to go welcome back. Okay. You ready? So we're going to alternate. So 1, 2, 3 together, right? Whoa, go. Speaker 3 00:32:26 Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Speaker 0 00:32:35 Good. Good. That was really good for your first time. She's a first timer. Oh, welcome back to author. Yay. We're back. And we're going to talk some strokes. Chuck, you smash. Let's get right back into it. Jackie. At the end of the last segment, you talked about getting some help at Fairview hospital for your chemically induced psychosis. What happened next? Speaker 3 00:33:02 I got taken out of Fairview AME because my parents weren't happy with what the doctors were recommending. Speaker 0 00:33:11 Oh, the doctor's recommending that your parents hated so much. Speaker 3 00:33:15 Right? I know they just wanted to get me to my regular psychiatrist. They were just scared and they didn't think I was getting the right treatment. I left Fairview to be under the care of my mom and I came home to try to wean myself back or try to fix my meds. Terrified. I had had to take a leave of absence from work it's now I just think it's so sad, but it was work was all I had, like it was my entire life. And to admit I couldn't do my job and to worse, not be able to explain to people where I went or why I was just mortified by it. And I never thought I could go back. I was so embarrassed. So I took a leave of absence. I had one free. I knew I couldn't drink again. And I had one friend who was sober and I in my whole life, only one person I knew. So I started talking to her a little bit, you know, and I was like, I don't know what I need. I'd know. I can't drink again. She brought me to an AA meeting, went under the guys that I didn't have to say it was an alcoholic. I could just say, I'm checking this out. Cause I wasn't ready. Speaker 0 00:34:13 Which you can, by the way, you can totally do that. All are welcome at an open AA meeting, right? Speaker 3 00:34:20 Yeah. So I just went, it was an open a couldn't understand why everyone was happy. And I just didn't think I was an alcoholic yet. I wasn't ready to admit it. Speaker 0 00:34:29 And alcoholic Jackie, Speaker 3 00:34:31 At that time I felt I had scared myself enough that I wouldn't drink again. And I have had felt, I had been able to quit for different periods in my, in my head and alcoholic looked a certain way and was like a certain person. And it just wasn't in my head what I was. Speaker 0 00:34:47 Okay. So what does an alcoholic look like in your head? Speaker 3 00:34:50 In my head, I thought an alcoholic had to drink, like to function like 24 hours a day, homeless on the street, which can be true. But alcohol isn't looks very different, which I know now I just thought I could not, I couldn't control it. I was like, I just won't drink. It's not going to be that hard. I know how to not drink. Speaker 0 00:35:07 So you go to this AA meeting where you were going to tell them my name is Jackie. Speaker 3 00:35:13 I'm just checking it Speaker 0 00:35:14 Out. I'm just checking it out. Not an alcoholic. You guys are a bunch of fucking freaks that are happy. The hell's up with that. What did you get from that first meeting? What was helpful about Speaker 3 00:35:26 I wasn't there yet. I afterwards a bunch of people came up to me just trying to like, and I just was so full of like, not willing to admit my stuff. I just left the meeting and like, I just left the meeting. This isn't for me. This isn't what I have. Like I have bipolar. Maybe I just need to go to like bipolar support groups. I'm not an alcoholic. Ironically alcoholic was harder for me to admit that I have bipolar. Why do you think that is it wasn't okay for me? I don't know why. Speaker 0 00:35:53 And a lot of that stems from misinformation. A lot of people don't understand that alcoholics when they put alcohol, any amount of alcohol, whatever into their system, something happens. A switch is flipped that cannot be unclipped very easily. The only person that can proclaim or pronounce or define themselves as an alcoholic is themselves. Right? The only person that can diagnose me as an alcoholic is me. If alcoholism runs in your family, there's a chance that you might be one too. You might become one too, because you are genetically predisposed to have that different thing in your head. That alcoholic gene, that allergy, that happens in the mind in the body when we take alcohol into our systems. All right. What did your continued help look like? You went to this very first AA meeting. What happened next? Speaker 3 00:36:55 Yeah. So I decided it wasn't for me at the time and I was just going to go out alone. So I thought if I just quit drinking, everything would be fine. Threw myself into exercise, eating. Right. My job went back to work, trying to reprove myself that did. Yeah. Just kind of tried to just try to go alone, but my life kept getting lonelier and lonelier, I would say, but I was sober. And so I was supposed to be like happy, but I was not. I would w I would be able to, you would call it dry drunk. I would Speaker 0 00:37:28 Say what's a dry drunk Speaker 3 00:37:29 For me. It just meant I wasn't drinking. It just meant I wasn't drinking. It would have helped because I was so angry. I was so alone. I hated people. I was so mad about like my past. I was so ashamed. I didn't have a way to escape. So I was just forced to sit with it all. Speaker 0 00:37:50 Were you engaging in any other destructive behaviors as you were sitting with this stuff? Or were you just angry? All this? Speaker 3 00:37:57 I was just angry and lonely. I was trying to channel it into like, or like do it alone. Like I was trying to like exercise my way out of it. Like, I was really trying, I got into green juice. Like I got into like every life coach you can imagine, like, I was trying to do everything Instagram told me to do to better myself. I mean, I felt for all of it, like Gabby Bernstein, like quit, like a woman. I was going to do like any way to get sober and stay sober, be the rising Phoenix story, but on my own, Speaker 0 00:38:30 Be that employee of the year of days past. Yes, that didn't work though. Speaker 3 00:38:37 Did it? No. So I had a good run. I mean, I was, I was dried just a dry drunk, I would say for sleep two and a half years, which is a long time. Luckily I was able to, I threw myself into travel and I started traveling globally, but I just, it was just a way to escape and I never came home for one year. I was probably gone 90% of the year and it was my life. Um, and it just didn't want to face a lot of people who travel for work sometimes are like that, but I just didn't want to face what was my, what was my actual life? Because there was nothing there that was two and a half years sober. And I was in Australia. I came back from us. I got really sick on the trip. And on the way back from Australia, I found out my dad had cancer. I was like, just not equipped to handle that. Like I had no coping skills, no network, no one in my life to help. Speaker 0 00:39:27 And you were alone and you didn't have your booze. Speaker 3 00:39:30 Exactly. I did have my friend, my once-over friend who was always kind of there in the background, like secretly, like we're always here, you know, AA is always here. I'm not a drunk. I'm not, yeah. I'm not an alcoholic. You guys look like you're having a lot of fun, but I'm not one of you. Um, and I also just had a really hard time being like showing people vulnerability at that time. Like I never wanted to show weakness. I wanted to be the person who could do it alone, but just like my dad's cancer diagnosis in realizing I had no one to turn to, I had nothing. And I was as close to drinking again, as I'd ever been, that was just kind of my sober realization or sober bottom that I had to get had to go to AA and seek that, whatever that looks like. Speaker 0 00:40:15 Did you go to AA because you didn't see any other option or was it more because you knew it was there and there was something there because these people seemed happy at that. You had only been to that one AA meeting. Right? Speaker 3 00:40:29 I was in this group, meditation group with women who were all sober. So they were kind of my only tied to like, and they were all in AA and they all seem to be doing remarkably well and they let me hang out with them now. I know. Cause they were like, she's one of us, but um, she'll come around. Speaker 0 00:40:47 She'll come around, Speaker 3 00:40:48 Just give her to let her sit here and think she's not. And so these women, like, I just really admired and they became the only real friends I kind of had. And they were ultimately, I was like, well, if they're alcoholics, I mean, I probably am. But I, I do know I had to try everything out there before I would do AA. And I did. And that's the only way I was willing to come back Speaker 0 00:41:16 Because the end of that search is an admission of something that you were getting a message that you are not, well, I'm going to try all this shit. And then if that fails, maybe I'll do something else. Right. So you just, you decided to do something else. Yeah. What was that beginning like? Speaker 3 00:41:37 Um, I went to a meeting and for the first I was terrified. Um, but for the first time I was just like, whatever they do or whatever they tell me to do, I'll do. I was, so I was just desperate. I had the gift of desperation and I was willing to just show up and be told what to do. Cause I didn't know what Speaker 0 00:41:54 To do anymore. What were they telling you to Speaker 3 00:41:56 Do? They told me, go to meetings, get a sponsor. So I immediately got a sponsor and Speaker 0 00:42:00 What's a sponsor. A Speaker 3 00:42:01 Sponsor is someone who is also sober working the 12 steps of recovery who shares their experience with you and guides you through the process. Speaker 0 00:42:10 And are you a sponsor? I am. Why is it so important for you to be a sponsor? Speaker 3 00:42:15 Sir, it's really important for me to be of service. Ultimately keeps me sober to help other people and to remind me of what I've been through and to be able to share my experience with someone who's also struggling. It's it's uh, my favorite part of the program Speaker 0 00:42:30 As a new person in the program, you said you started going to meetings. Yeah. Is that something that's been consistent since you started going to AA after being, as you said, a dry drunk for two and a half years of your sobriety, how long have you been sober? By Speaker 3 00:42:44 The way, four and a half years now. Speaker 0 00:42:46 Four and a half years. Congratulations. We just have today. When you look back four and a half years is a long fucking time to not have a drink for somebody that is an alcoholic. Right? Congratulations. That is a big deal. And I hope that you celebrate that in your own way. Yeah, I do. Thanks. You started going to meetings. Is that been something that's been consistent for you over the last two years or do you kinda sometimes not go to meetings for a month and then be like, oh yeah, I gotta go back. Or has that been a constant for you? Speaker 3 00:43:21 I mean, I do everything that they tell you to do in recovery Speaker 0 00:43:26 Gift of desperation. Speaker 3 00:43:28 Desperate. Yeah, I do. I go to three meetings a week. I have a sponsor. I am a sponsor, do service at the meetings. I hang out with sober people. I go to fellowship, I read the big book Speaker 0 00:43:40 And the big book is a big Speaker 3 00:43:42 Book, is a big book of alcoholics anonymous written by the founder and the first a hundred, Speaker 0 00:43:47 The basic text with a design for living. And it contains the 12 steps for a program of recovery. What is most helpful about meetings, AA meetings for you? Speaker 3 00:44:02 Oh my gosh. It was just like sitting in AA meetings and knowing I belong there, it was just hearing people share stuff about their lives. You know, it, it taught me that you don't really know anyone until I walked into AA and people were saying things that like just was honest and in front of strangers and it was such a breath of fresh air and I just craved it. And it was something that had been missing from all my relationships. You know, my previous relationships were always just comparing outside things. And how are you, you know, do you rent or own? Where do you go to school? Dah, dah, dah. And it's, it was just walking into a room and having people tell the truth was just like became a dry Speaker 0 00:44:42 To me, a drug. That's not trying to kill you. Right. It's yeah. In fact, the complete opposite Speaker 3 00:44:47 Now, uh, my favorite drug of choice is honesty. Speaker 0 00:44:56 I told Jackie earlier today, she said, do I need to bring anything to the interview? No, just, you know, some water, like your own water jug, if you want to drink out of that and a good attitude and an open mind, and Jackie goes, don't leave home with that and was like, fuck. Yeah, you are my kind of people, bitch. Jackie, what, if anything is not helpful for you going to AA meetings? What about them? Isn't helpful? Or what about them? Don't you like? Speaker 3 00:45:29 I don't know. I, you know, there's, I don't really blame the meeting if there's something I don't like, it's usually where I am in my head. If something's like irritated me at a medium, but I never blame the meeting. Like the meeting is kind of, it always is just what it is. It's the magic of it Speaker 0 00:45:43 To me. Well, what if somebody's super fucking annoying and doesn't shut the fuck up. Speaker 3 00:45:48 I see it as like, it's an act of service for me to be there, to listen to them because they needed someone to do that in front of Speaker 0 00:45:55 What would your reaction have been at that first AA meeting you went to, if there was somebody rattling off and being super annoying and redundant and just, Ugh, God, shut up. What would your reaction have been to somebody like that at your first AA meeting? Speaker 3 00:46:10 I would have murdered them in my mind. Yeah. I mean, it was ruthless before. Speaker 0 00:46:15 Yeah. And now the script has completely been flipped, right? It's not, what can I do in my head? What can I, how can I murder this person? Right? It's oh, I'm here to be of service to this person that obviously needs to talk that needs to get this yucky out of their soul. What a beautiful transition, what a beautiful shift. Speaker 3 00:46:41 Well, I just also know like I've showed up to meetings and Ben, that yucky person in some poor person has had to sit and witness that Speaker 0 00:46:48 Well. And the great thing about EI is that it reminds me that I am not perfect and it keeps reminding me that humility is probably one of my best friends. Because if I just think about Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, that prevents me from being of maximum service to my fellows. Right. And really that's what AA is about is about one alcoholic, helping another alcoholic. It's not a call to everyone. It's not a religious entity. There's nothing like that. No outside issues, no politics or anything like that. All it is is one alcoholic, helping another alcoholic. We sound like a cult because we have these prayers and all these readings that we do. And we say some really weird shit, but it's just one alcoholic helping another alcoholic outside of AA. What helps you to stay? So Speaker 3 00:47:42 I have always meditated since I got sober since almost day one, I had meditated a little bit when I was drinking, but nothing like serious. Just trying to stop the freight train from going through my brain. Speaker 0 00:47:52 What does meditation look like for you? Or what did it look like for you at the beginning? Speaker 3 00:47:57 I started just the practice of just sitting still in the mornings for 20 minutes. And I've done it not in the same way, but every day, every morning for four and a half years. And I've tried many different forms of meditation, tried the Emiline yoga tradition, which gives you a mantra. I've tried guided meditation. I've experimented with anything with it, just to kind of find out what works. And I kind of go through different phases with it. I just don't mess with my morning routine. Speaker 0 00:48:25 What do you get out of meditation Speaker 3 00:48:28 Outside AA? I think it's been the biggest impact on my life. It's improved my self awareness. It's helped just, I always have a, go-to like to calm myself, different breathing techniques. I swear by it. You know, I use it to pray. I use it to for stress. I just love it. Speaker 0 00:48:47 You said you pray. What kind of prayers do you do? What is, what is a simple prayer for you sound like and what are you praying to? I have a higher power. What does that mean? A higher power. Speaker 3 00:48:58 I just believe that there has got to be something bigger than me that can, um, return me to sanity or to just to guide me and I, that higher power shifts daily minute by minute, it's very hard to nail down. It could be, it could be silence. It could be a gut feeling. It could be a stranger saying something, but I just, it has to be outside myself. Speaker 0 00:49:21 Is higher power. The name for your higher power or do you have a name for it? I Speaker 3 00:49:25 Do. I interchange higher power or God, Speaker 0 00:49:27 God. And is that religiously affiliated? Speaker 3 00:49:30 No. I mean, I think I consider a very spiritual, grew up Catholic. My whole life went to Catholic school, but I don't. It's just, I didn't, it wasn't like a personal relationship with God, which now I feel like I have a personal relationship. Speaker 0 00:49:42 And the most important part about your program in recovery in AA is this higher power that sometimes you call God, sometimes you feel right, which is kind of an odd concept. You don't always call your higher power. God, you don't always have a name for it. Right? That's very interesting because like you said, you grew up Catholic. There is an aim that you use and you use it all the time in all the prayers at the services, you go to this freedom that you have to let your higher power, ebb and flow and maneuver. That's gotta be so freeing. There's something so freeing about choosing my own conception of a power greater than myself. And what you said was that power greater than yourself, has the ability to return you to sanity. What is insane about your life? Speaker 3 00:50:39 I mean, I go to the traditional definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. But what is really, Speaker 0 00:50:48 I fucking hate that. I hate it when people say that didn't Einstein say that are some good Speaker 3 00:50:54 Misquoted all the time, but it is. That is insane. Speaker 0 00:50:57 But is that the actual definition of insanity or is that something just people say that's Speaker 3 00:51:02 Something we can Google after this. I Speaker 0 00:51:04 Don't want to, I just want to say fuck that. Sick of hearing it, Jackie. Speaker 3 00:51:11 So to me being insane is just thinking I have to do it alone. I think that was insane to me. I mean, life is hard and it's not something we ever have to do alone. Speaker 0 00:51:21 Jackie, continuing on with the help that you received outside of AA, outside of meditation, what is your medical help? Outside of a, Speaker 3 00:51:32 Oh yeah. I mean, I like I'm rigorous with my Speaker 0 00:51:37 Medications. What kind of medications are you on? I Speaker 3 00:51:40 Am on an anti-depressant. I'm on an anxiety psychotic. I'm on a mood stabilizer. And Speaker 0 00:51:48 What are you on? Should we compare drugs? Okay. What's your anti-depressant Lexapro. Oh, Speaker 3 00:51:54 I like Speaker 0 00:51:55 Lexapro. I like Prozac. Oh, interesting. Okay. Next. What's your mood? Stabilizer. Speaker 3 00:52:00 Lamictal. Speaker 0 00:52:04 What's your anti-psychotic GNN I don't think maybe I'm on an answer. I don't know. I take so many fucking pills. I don't even know what my anti-psychotic is. What would you say to someone that says you don't need pills to keep you sane? Like you're just popping pills to make you calm down. Why can't you just fix that yourself? Okay. So you get really depressed. Do some happy shit. Why do you need to be on pills for that? What would you say to somebody that says that that's bullshit. Why is that bullshit? Speaker 3 00:52:37 I medication is the only hope I have it having a normal life. It's a chemical imbalance in my brain. It's like, if I broke my leg, I wouldn't say I'm not going to use crutches. Like it's just simply to stabilize my neurons. I have to take it to be normal. Does Speaker 0 00:52:54 It fix everything? Speaker 3 00:52:55 No. I still have to do bunch of different self-care stuff. In addition to it, you can't just take a pill and expect to be measurably better. It's just the foundation. Speaker 0 00:53:05 Speaking of foundations, who is part of your foundation, if you were to mention people, places or things that are your foundation for a happy life, what are those people? Places and things. Who are those people? What are those places? Speaker 3 00:53:22 Interesting nature is just where I craved to be. At all times. My two brothers are my best friends in the whole world. I just adore them. And my meditation ladies is a group of about eight of us. We've been through a lot. Speaker 0 00:53:35 Jackie, what would you say to the one person out there that is looking for some help, but doesn't know how to ask for it because we're not mind readers. I can't know that you need help. I can see that some people may be struggling. I don't know necessarily that you need it or that you even want it. How would you tell someone to ask for help specifically with alcoholism? Speaker 3 00:54:01 Tell them to check out a meeting. I don't know. I think there it's the easiest way to just kind of see what's going on. And especially now, and during this time there's so many meetings online. It's less scary than walking into a room. You can kind of pop in and hear what people have to say. And don't be ashamed. Everybody struggles with something. Once you open that gate of like, I'm struggling with this, you realize you kind of give other people the opportunity to share too. And you realize we're all going through something and everybody at one point needs help. And you're not that special. Speaker 0 00:54:33 We're all in recovery from something. All right, we are going to take one more break. And when we come back, Jackie is going to talk about my favorite four letter word. No, it's not. Fuck it's H O P E O Speaker 0 00:56:15 Cru all for work. We're here. We've made a Jackie we're at the hope portion of the show, who to funk, where we talk about hope. It's not just a clever name for the last section. We do talk about hope, Jackie, what gives you hope? Oh man. I know that's a really broad question. That's why I ask it and I love it when people say, well, Speaker 3 00:56:45 I just like small things. Give me hope. I just like seeing people overcome shit. I kinda like have this thing. I think mark Marin said it though. Like, I don't want to like talk to someone who hasn't lost 10 years of their lives or something. Like I really, I am surrounded by people who have overcome unsurmountable obstacles and are living really full lives. And I see it every day in small and big ways. And that's what gives me hope. Speaker 0 00:57:11 If you could magically make yourself not an alcoholic, I'm here. I am your magical alcoholic ferry named Nick Elia. And I'm going to wave this magic wand. I'm going to say, would you like to be a non-alcoholic? There you go. You're not an alcoholic. What'd you do that? If I gave you that option? No. Why? Speaker 3 00:57:34 I wouldn't want any other way. I feel very lucky to be an alcoholic and to have the program I do and the people I do and the higher power I do, because it's a much easier way. And I don't think everybody says lucky to have that to go through life. Speaker 0 00:57:47 Would you explain being an alcoholic? What would you want to say to help understand why you can't be one of those people that just has one drink? Speaker 3 00:57:58 I'm just, I would never have one drink because I'm not drinking for the purpose of like having a drink. I'm drinking for the purpose of blacking out. I'm drinking to numb. I'm drinking to erase whatever is going on. And one drink will never do that. 10 won't do that. It's different every night. That's what makes me an alcoholic. I'm not drinking socially. It's not something I'm doing for fun. I have a soul purpose when I drink. Speaker 0 00:58:23 I said earlier that the only person that can diagnose themselves and alcoholic is that person. I know we're not trying to think for them. I also think that it's important for children to look at what their upbringing is, what their parents are like, what their brothers and sisters are like, what their grandparents are like to understand what they're a product of. Neither of my parents are alcoholics. They tried to stop the cycle. Both of their fathers, alcoholics. Both of them have brothers and sisters, my aunts and uncles that are alcoholics and drug addicts. It's a family disease. And I think it's just that. I think it's a disease. And you touched on it a little bit earlier. If you have an issue, if you have a mental health problem, you're going to take medication because that's what makes it better. And if I'm an alcoholic, my medication is alcoholics anonymous. Speaker 0 00:59:21 So I'm going to go to alcoholics anonymous in going to alcoholics anonymous. I do my own inventory where I look at my entire life from beginning to current. And a part of that is looking at my family dynamic, how I was affected by my parents, by my brothers and sisters, not placing fault, but just understanding or investigating if you will. It is my hope that some people, a person listening to this show realizes that if I want help and I want it to last and I want it to mean something I have to ask for it myself. And that is the hardest thing. That was the hardest thing for me, giving up control. It's so interesting that you tried to keep that control and you stayed sober for two and a half years. That is an amazing feat. Jackie. That's crazy. That is insane. And I'm so glad that you've found this help, that you asked for this help, that you've joined these people on this broad all-inclusive highway. What a miracle that is. And I just wanted to tell you that I am grateful to know you, and I'm grateful that you have shared your story here tonight. Jackie, what do you want to say to a young person that can't put a name or a label on their depression or their mania? What would you want to say to that young person? Speaker 3 01:00:52 Hey, and if there's no shame in getting help, you have to, like you said, ask for it. And if you can't understand what you're going through, just know you're not alone. Speaker 0 01:01:05 Jackie, what would you like your legacy as a human being to be, Speaker 3 01:01:11 Oh man, I want to help a lot of people. It's all I want to do. I want to help people overcome shit and be supportive. I want to be a good friend. I want to be a good sister. I want to be just, I want to be a good person in people's lives. That's there for them Speaker 0 01:01:25 And how different that is from where you were really two short years ago, even post elimination of alcohol and drugs, how quickly that changes and how beautiful that change is. And I can see it in your eyes and it's magical. It's inexplicable. It's something about people's eyes that you can see when they wake up. Jackie, thank you so much for being on authentic. Yeah. Speaker 3 01:02:00 Thanks for having me Speaker 0 01:02:01 Because you most certainly have been authen tick. All right, Jackie. It is that time where I allow your welcome. I allow my guests, my interviewees to pick their own sign off. Now, you know, I have the best in the business, right? You've heard about me. You've read about me in your encyclopedia, Britannica under B's best sign off line. Nicholas Thomas Fitzsimmons, van gamblers, picture of me and below that it says be good to yourselves. It's important. And if I'm looking for like some real, like real bravado and real drama, you ready be good to yourselves. It is ever so important. See that the little punchy, the little rhetoric felt good. Did it feel good for you? Okay. Now it's your turn to try and beat that good luck. Be true. And as always be good to yourselves, it is ever so important.